Show Me the Money

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

And I heard of a woman I do not know personally that was a friend of my mother-in-law and she lost her teaching job after teaching over 30 years at a school...long story short the bankers were knocking on her door since she had not been able to pay her mortgage on her house and to top things off she had a lien already on the house and could not pay that either. So I wiped out the debt on the lien, then I paid off the remainder of her mortgage which was about five years left on the mortgage so that she can live free and clear from worry of her, her mother, her two sisters and her son (with no man in the house) being thrown out in the streets....this is ridiculous that I am even sharing this, but you act as if "saints" don't have their stories to tell too....so let's set aside the silly back-patting and move on with the discussion and not self-aggrandizement.

So we should set aside our back-patting now that you have bruised yours?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

It is so hilarious to hear some posters who despise the idea of accountability in their lives call for ministerial accountability. Of course, I do not mean you specifically. I think the saints should show their W-2's and checking and savings account balances to the church board as well. It would be a good way for them to show they believe in accountability.

Get a reality check ... Altar Ego ... pastors are still considered self-employed and/ or employees of the church .... if a pastor rejects full disclosure to the church SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG.

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Perhaps we should stop calling this a "discussion" forum and allow the Levites to pontificate to us ... gimme a break AE ... I was a PK for 32 years of my life ... I have eyes and ears ... I saw teenage PK's who were driving BMWs and and other new luxury cars and their daddys had significantly smaller churches and didnt have any sugar saints like the one mentioned by Jeff ...

Give the separation between laity and ministry doctrine a rest.

I will the very moment you give the ministry is meaningless and shameful doctrine a rest. You just used two words to describe different parts of the body of Christ - laity and ministry. Why did you do that?

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Get a reality check ... Altar Ego ... pastors are still considered self-employed and/ or employees of the church .... if a pastor rejects full disclosure to the church SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG.

Thats not what this thread is about. Its about folks being upset that a minister is blessed.

I totally agree with your statement though.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Poor Daniel. Were you jealous? Is that where this is coming from?

I will the very moment you give the ministry is meaningless and shameful doctrine a rest. You just used two words to describe different parts of the body of Christ - laity and ministry. Why did you do that?

AE ... your judgmentalism and arrogance is oozing tonight ...

I used these words to describe a carnal philosophy some hold ... I believe in the election of all saints.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

So we should set aside our back-patting now that you have bruised yours?

I was imitating Paul's technique to drive a point:


" I repeat: Let no one take me for a fool. But if you do, then receive me just as you would a fool, so that I may do a little boasting. 17In this self-confident boasting I am not talking as the Lord would, but as a fool. 18Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast. 19You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! 20In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face. 21To my shame I admit that we were too weak for that!
What anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about. 22Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham's descendants? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

30If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness."

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

It is so hilarious to hear some posters who despise the idea of accountability in their lives call for ministerial accountability. Of course, I do not mean you specifically. I think the saints should show their W-2's and checking and savings account balances to the church board as well. It would be a good way for them to show they believe in accountability.

You guys are UC only in standards, when it comes to money you are totally liberal in your lack of accountability. Such extreme reaction to a very simple and rational understanding, men need someone that can tell them "NO!"

The accountability is to an elder lead ministry team, of which the pastor is the first among equals. This is not a group of ungodly businessmen, they are ministers/servants to the body of Christ. A very small circle that is privy to the intimate details of the church's affairs, with an annual accounting report to the active membership.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You guys are UC only in standards, when it comes to money you are totally liberal in your lack of accountability. Such extreme reaction to a very simply and rational understanding, men need someone that can tell them "NO!"

The accountability is to an elder lead ministry team, of which the pastor is the first among equals. This is not a group of ungodly businessmen, they are ministers/servants to the body of Christ. A very small circle that is privy to the intimate details of the church's affairs, with an annual accounting report to the active membership.

CAN WE SAY MODERATION

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You guys are UC only in standards, when it comes to money you are totally liberal in your lack of accountability. Such extreme reaction to a very simply and rational understanding, men need someone that can tell them "NO!"

The accountability is to an elder lead ministry team, of which the pastor is the first among equals. This is not a group of ungodly businessmen, they are ministers/servants to the body of Christ. A very small circle that is privy to the intimate details of the church's affairs, with an annual accounting report to the active membership.

Hilarious.

You have no idea. You assume much.

I believe in accountability, I just don't believe in control - from either party.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You guys are UC only in standards, when it comes to money you are totally liberal in your lack of accountability. Such extreme reaction to a very simply and rational understanding, men need someone that can tell them "NO!"

The accountability is to an elder lead ministry team, of which the pastor is the first among equals. This is not a group of ungodly businessmen, they are ministers/servants to the body of Christ. A very small circle that is privy to the intimate details of the church's affairs, with an annual accounting report to the active membership.

OOPS ... more Apostolic governance being ignored by the Apostolic church today.