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  #141  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:33 PM
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DerechHashem DerechHashem is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
First, who on this Forum is going to take the time to try and figure out if what you're saying is true or not? Your "Hebrew and Greek" insight is quite frankly, not only boring, but heartless. You swallow a camel, and strain at a gnat. The weightier matters of the Law fill your explanation, playing musical chairs with Scripture. This depicts to me that God does not love me, and that I will never get close to Him because I can't figure out what you're saying.

You stand head and shoulders above everyone with your Historical gibberish and language barrier, while people are left scratching their heads. Put enough spin on it, and everybody is dizzy. It sounds good, even though it doesn't make sense.

I'll ask you what I've asked countless others; What did people do before people like you came along, Bible thumping everyone out of existence?

For 3500 years man was on this Planet with NO SCRIPTURE! NONE! When Adam was apparently created, God placed no Bible in the Garden. No books. No Hebrew. No Greek. No Hell. No Heaven. NO RELIGION!!! The Garden was a place of relationship with Man, his wife, and God.

And, the Hell of Eternal torture did not appear until after Jesus had been crucified, being written in the 4 Gospels, some say not until 50-100 years AD. There is also great speculation that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not author these books. No author can be found, and historians are concerned because the language of those texts and the education of these books don't link to a fisherman.

Let’s also remember, we didn't have an actual Bible until the 16th Century. That means the Bible was printed and made 400 years ago. And, it took Centuries of printing the Bible to distribute it throughout the Earth. What you do today, was done by only the Pharisees/Leviticus Priesthood who had access to the Torah (First 5 Books of the Bible).

After over 30 years as a Christian/Apostolic, and the first 20 years of my life as a Catholic, my eyes have been opened by experience. People have real questions about the method to our madness. Eternal Hell sounds good to the new convert, zeal boiling from their veins. But as life unfolds, and reality is played out, what we once believed is not only challenged, but found to be a lie in many areas. Prophecies fail. Healings were false. People speaking in tongues were motivated by pressure. Our altar antics depict a loss of our senses. Preachers screaming their message under the anointing of volume. Rolling on the floor in a frenzy, or drunk in the Spirit.

Then the big one; Who’s really saved, and who’s really lost? As I’ve gotten older, great memories fill my mind about my Grandparents. Living in the same home for over 50 years, going through the Great Depression, and loving me as a grandson, these fine people helped raise me. My grandfather taught me how to fish, took me camping, and loved spending time with me. My grandmother was a dynamic woman, faithful to her husband and loyal to her family to the death. They are one reason today, I’m the man that I am.

Nothing fancy here. Nothing hard to explain. Just good people, who shared their life with me as a young boy, and part of my young married life. Yeah, they made mistakes like all of us, but there was no doubt about how they loved life and people, putting something in me that comes only through realationship, not head knowledge.

They died Catholics. I was taught, and told to justify with Scripture, that Catholics are LOST. If God is going to hurl these people into Eternal Hell, none of us stand a chance!
First you attack my written response, I then asked you four questions which you apparently objected to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerechHashem
So you believe all the above is false?

Hades was not a Greek mytholigical God in charge of the Netherworld, Gehenna never existed in the Valley of Hinnom? Tartaroo was never a prison for the lesser Gods in mythology? And Sheol never means "pit, grave, hole, cavern, etc?
Did you answer those four questions? No, you did not.

But you did follow up with alot of berations and attacks.

Quote:
First, who on this Forum is going to take the time to try and figure out if what you're saying is true or not?
Those who seek truth.

Quote:
Your "Hebrew and Greek" insight is quite frankly, not only boring, but heartless.
Maybe Hebrew and Greek helps get to the crux of the matter, also I am not the first, nor will I be the last in here to use Hebrew or Greek.

Boring to you yes. Heartless is only your opinion.

Quote:
You swallow a camel, and strain at a gnat. The weightier matters of the Law fill your explanation, playing musical chairs with Scripture.
Purely conjecture on your part.

Quote:
This depicts to me that God does not love me, and that I will never get close to Him because I can't figure out what you're saying.
Gods love for you, and his closeness has no bearing on ignorance of what I am communicating. Ignorance = Lack of understanding in a particular area, not to be considered condenscending or or berating.

Quote:
You stand head and shoulders above everyone with your Historical gibberish and language barrier, while people are left scratching their heads. Put enough spin on it, and everybody is dizzy. It sounds good, even though it doesn't make sense.
Just your opinion of me? Many in here have used the same historical data, while using the Greek as well as the Hebrew, and everyone seems to be dialoguing quite well in here.

Quote:
I'll ask you what I've asked countless others; What did people do before people like you came along, Bible thumping everyone out of existence?
Seems your enemy is the bible and not me, just my opinion. People prior to me, utilized oracle teachings as well as written, just because many writings have not survived, does not mean they never existed.

Quote:
For 3500 years man was on this Planet with NO SCRIPTURE! NONE! When Adam was apparently created, God placed no Bible in the Garden. No books. No Hebrew. No Greek. No Hell. No Heaven. NO RELIGION!!! The Garden was a place of relationship with Man, his wife, and God.
Seems Adam and his wife blew it, huh?

Quote:
And, the Hell of Eternal torture did not appear until after Jesus had been crucified, being written in the 4 Gospels, some say not until 50-100 years AD. There is also great speculation that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not author these books. No author can be found, and historians are concerned because the language of those texts and the education of these books don't link to a fisherman.
No argument here on the concept of Hell, it is a Pagan mytholical teaching, which you seemed to take offense too. And as for Authorship of the Gospels, I am sure that will be fought over for the next 2000 years.

Quote:
Let’s also remember, we didn't have an actual Bible until the 16th Century. That means the Bible was printed and made 400 years ago. And, it took Centuries of printing the Bible to distribute it throughout the Earth. What you do today, was done by only the Pharisees/Leviticus Priesthood who had access to the Torah (First 5 Books of the Bible).
So anybody who espounds scripture is likened to the Pharisees/Leviticus Priesthood, not any of the the other religious sects of the day? Or are you trying to paint a picture? Pastors, Priests, Saints, Sheperds, Teachers, espound scripture, are they all Pharisees/Leviticus Priests? Or just me?

Quote:
After over 30 years as a Christian/Apostolic, and the first 20 years of my life as a Catholic, my eyes have been opened by experience. People have real questions about the method to our madness. Eternal Hell sounds good to the new convert, zeal boiling from their veins. But as life unfolds, and reality is played out, what we once believed is not only challenged, but found to be a lie in many areas. Prophecies fail. Healings were false. People speaking in tongues were motivated by pressure. Our altar antics depict a loss of our senses. Preachers screaming their message under the anointing of volume. Rolling on the floor in a frenzy, or drunk in the Spirit.
I hear what your saying, but I am trying to follow the revelance. Or your just giving a personal testomony. Which is good.

But yes there is good and bad in religion.

Quote:
Then the big one; Who’s really saved, and who’s really lost? As I’ve gotten older, great memories fill my mind about my Grandparents. Living in the same home for over 50 years, going through the Great Depression, and loving me as a grandson, these fine people helped raise me. My grandfather taught me how to fish, took me camping, and loved spending time with me. My grandmother was a dynamic woman, faithful to her husband and loyal to her family to the death. They are one reason today, I’m the man that I am.

Nothing fancy here. Nothing hard to explain. Just good people, who shared their life with me as a young boy, and part of my young married life. Yeah, they made mistakes like all of us, but there was no doubt about how they loved life and people, putting something in me that comes only through realationship, not head knowledge.
Oh but they had knowledge, you just don't see it? Do you? Read what you wrote, they had all the knowledge in the world, they just didn't teach you out of a book. But they had knowledge.

Quote:
They died Catholics. I was taught, and told to justify with Scripture, that Catholics are LOST. If God is going to hurl these people into Eternal Hell, none of us stand a chance!
Sounds like a personal struggle that you need to deal with, do you have problems they died Catholics or the Catholic Church?

By much of your dialogue it seems or give the impression you yourself was a Catholic for awhile, is that why the issue is with me?
__________________

Ye my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah

LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? . . Backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. A Psalm of David
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  #142  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:33 PM
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DerechHashem DerechHashem is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Derech,

Do you believe in spirits and angels?
I believe in Angelic Spirits.
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Ye my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah

LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? . . Backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. A Psalm of David
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  #143  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:35 PM
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DerechHashem DerechHashem is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

[QUOTE=easter;827238]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post

Oh no it's not that I misunderstand.I know that Jesus is the Lamb of God.I know exactly what the cross means for all man kind.Now I know most here are of the oneness understanding.So bear with.
By the blood of the lamb our sins are covered and we are reconciled to the Father.God can not look upon sin.Jesus dying on the cross covers a multitude of sins.
Jesus talks to Nicodemus about being born again.Born of the Spirit.Nicodemus didn't understand this.Of course we understand this as accepting Jesus as our savior and as a child of God we are promised the comforter,the Holy Spirit.So we are born of the Spirit and that also means we are sealed by the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit bears witness with our Spirit,meaning when there are two witnesses,Jesus is in the midst of them.Jesus knows we are his sheep because he knows us because we are sealed.This is the point of the cross.

I believe Jesus(THE WORD) has established his church by his words.God has already sent his son to save the world.It's up to the ones who hear the word if whether they want to be saved or not.God has not failed.Comparing God to McDonald's is twisted.
To define a fence rider more clearly...
This is someone who hears the truth,likes the way it sounds but never fully commits their life to the Lord.Someone who is Christian in name only and no we are not all fence riders.For those who have a close,personal relationship with the Lord,these folks are up and about the Father's business.
If Hell is not real or eternal I wonder why God thought it necessary to send his son to die in our place.Since the souls of man don't die then if Jesus died in our place.IF WE ARE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB<WHAT ARE WE SAVED FROM?
I'm not trying to be diffulcult.I would really like to know how Hell may not be eternal.This goes against scripture for the most part.
That was a nice explanation1
__________________

Ye my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah

LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? . . Backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. A Psalm of David
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  #144  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:37 PM
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DerechHashem DerechHashem is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by easter View Post
"NOT FOR SALE",
I read your post and the part about your grandparents and it's what I'd like to address...
Jesus came here and seen the man made religions.Even told the leaders they didn't even know who they worshiped.The religions were and are made up with mostly man made traditions.
Like you said"Strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.They would allow one thing if they thought it was ok,yet they jumped Jesus when he healed on a sabbath.
God looks on the hearts of man.If you were told Catholics went to hell.That's a lie straight from the enemy.Jesus looks on the hearts and just because someone may be Catholic,Baptist or Pentecostal,these people don't go to Heaven on the coat tails of the church.They go to Heaven because God searches the hearts.If your Grandparents were as you say,and they Loved the Lord you know they are in Heaven.
Also I would like to add that I was raised Baptist and taught to fear God and I mean literally Fear him.If one didn't accept him,God would throw out a harsh punishment.After one accepted Christ,if you didn't live sin free God would retaliate and something bad would happen to you or someone you love.I spent the first 20 years of my life believing a lie and not to mention that I believed God might really be evil if he would kill me if I messed up.
Thank the Lord I now know that God is Love so maybe this Hell theory could be a scare tactic but I'm not real sure about it.I do know God don't send somebody to Hell because they are Catholic.
Another good post!
__________________

Ye my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah

LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? . . Backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. A Psalm of David
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  #145  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:40 PM
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DerechHashem DerechHashem is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

[QUOTE=easter;827314]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerechHashem View Post

OK, but do you even know who your addressing this post to Derech?
I was addressing it to Aquila. Why?
__________________

Ye my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah

LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? . . Backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. A Psalm of David
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  #146  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:54 PM
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easter easter is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

[QUOTE=DerechHashem;827343]
Quote:
Originally Posted by easter View Post

I was addressing it to Aquila. Why?
God did not call you to defend him.He called you to show the love of the Father that is in you.
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John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you for ever 17 The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
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  #147  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:25 PM
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DerechHashem DerechHashem is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

[QUOTE=easter;827354]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerechHashem View Post

God did not call you to defend him. He called you to show the love of the Father that is in you.
Have I not shown love? And was it not a valid question?

Apologia: A formal written defense of something you believe in strongly, a defense especially of one's opinions, position, religion, conduct, or actions.

Guilty as charged! For my defense of Gods word!

2 Timothy 3:16, TLB. "The whole Bible was given to us by inspiration from God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives; it straightens us out and helps us do what is right."

2 Timothy 2:2, TLB. "For you must teach others those things you and many others have heard me speak about. Teach these great truths to trustworthy men who will, in turn, pass them on to others."

Colossians 4:6, NIV. "Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone."

I Corinthians 4:14, TLB. "I am not writing about these things to make you ashamed, but to warn and counsel you as beloved children."

Hebrews 12:7, TLB. "Let God train you, for he is doing what any loving father does for his children. Whoever heard of a son who was never corrected?"

II Timothy 3:16,17, NIV. "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

II Corinthians 4:2, TLB. "We do not try to trick people into believing—we are not interested in fooling anyone. We never try to get anyone to believe that the Bible teaches what it doesn't. All such shameful methods we forego. We stand in the presence of God as we speak and so we tell the truth, as all who know us will agree."

Romans 1:16, NIV. "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile."

Acts 1:8, NIV. "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
__________________

Ye my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah

LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? . . Backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. A Psalm of David
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  #148  
Old 11-04-2009, 12:06 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

[QUOTE=easter;827238]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post

Oh no it's not that I misunderstand.I know that Jesus is the Lamb of God.I know exactly what the cross means for all man kind.Now I know most here are of the oneness understanding.So bear with.
By the blood of the lamb our sins are covered and we are reconciled to the Father.God can not look upon sin.Jesus dying on the cross covers a multitude of sins.
Jesus talks to Nicodemus about being born again.Born of the Spirit.Nicodemus didn't understand this.Of course we understand this as accepting Jesus as our savior and as a child of God we are promised the comforter,the Holy Spirit.So we are born of the Spirit and that also means we are sealed by the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit bears witness with our Spirit,meaning when there are two witnesses,Jesus is in the midst of them.Jesus knows we are his sheep because he knows us because we are sealed.This is the point of the cross.

I believe Jesus(THE WORD) has established his church by his words.God has already sent his son to save the world.It's up to the ones who hear the word if whether they want to be saved or not.God has not failed.Comparing God to McDonald's is twisted.
To define a fence rider more clearly...
This is someone who hears the truth,likes the way it sounds but never fully commits their life to the Lord.Someone who is Christian in name only and no we are not all fence riders.For those who have a close,personal relationship with the Lord,these folks are up and about the Father's business.
If Hell is not real or eternal I wonder why God thought it necessary to send his son to die in our place.Since the souls of man don't die then if Jesus died in our place.IF WE ARE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB<WHAT ARE WE SAVED FROM?
I'm not trying to be diffulcult.I would really like to know how Hell may not be eternal.This goes against scripture for the most part.
It's late and I just got back in. Thank you for the time you put into your post. I'd like to respond to your post sometime tomorrow evening. It deserves far more in depth answers and scholarly examples than I can provide tonight, I'm just too tired. I'll respond to a few other posts here with some quips... but your post will be answered well, I promise.
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  #149  
Old 11-04-2009, 11:25 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

[QUOTE=easter;827238]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post

Oh no it's not that I misunderstand.I know that Jesus is the Lamb of God.I know exactly what the cross means for all man kind.Now I know most here are of the oneness understanding.So bear with.
By the blood of the lamb our sins are covered and we are reconciled to the Father. God can not look upon sin. Jesus dying on the cross covers a multitude of sins.
Jesus talks to Nicodemus about being born again.Born of the Spirit.Nicodemus didn't understand this.Of course we understand this as accepting Jesus as our savior and as a child of God we are promised the comforter,the Holy Spirit.So we are born of the Spirit and that also means we are sealed by the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit bears witness with our Spirit,meaning when there are two witnesses,Jesus is in the midst of them.Jesus knows we are his sheep because he knows us because we are sealed.This is the point of the cross.

I believe Jesus(THE WORD) has established his church by his words.God has already sent his son to save the world.It's up to the ones who hear the word if whether they want to be saved or not.God has not failed.Comparing God to McDonald's is twisted.
To define a fence rider more clearly...
This is someone who hears the truth,likes the way it sounds but never fully commits their life to the Lord.Someone who is Christian in name only and no we are not all fence riders.For those who have a close,personal relationship with the Lord,these folks are up and about the Father's business.
If Hell is not real or eternal I wonder why God thought it necessary to send his son to die in our place.Since the souls of man don't die then if Jesus died in our place.IF WE ARE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB<WHAT ARE WE SAVED FROM?
I'm not trying to be diffulcult.I would really like to know how Hell may not be eternal.This goes against scripture for the most part.
The Bible tells us that Hell was created for the devil and his angels,
Matthew 25:41
{25:41} Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For this reason we know that Satan and his angels will never be set free from Hell. And we know that this fire burns for ever to punish Satan and his angels for their evil.

However, in this very same chapter Jesus is talking about the wicked that are cast into the “everlasting fire”. Jesus says,
Matthew 25:46
{25:46} And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
Notice Jesus doesn’t say everlasting “torment”. It’s interesting to note that Jesus uses the word that we translate “punishment”. That Greek word is “kolasis”. Kolasis is a pruning, correction, or punishment. Its root is the Greek word “kolas” and it means to cut in the sense of pruning. Throughout Greek literature the terms “kolasis” and “kolas” are used when speaking of pruning a bush, a tree, or a vine to cause it to grow better, to grow straight, and to produce desired flowers or fruit. We envision “torments” when we think of God’s punishment….Jesus uses a word denoting an act of “pruning”. The nuance drawn from this word is of a tender gardener who is cutting a vine or bushel to correct and enhance its growth. Yes, pruning can be hard on a bushel or vine… but in the end it stands tall, corrected, strong, and fruitful.

As for this being “everlasting”; indeed it shall be. This not an everlasting action; it is an everlasting effect. When a soul undergoes “punishment” (Grk. kolasis, or pruning) from God that soul is forever corrected. They will now grow right. They have been corrected forever. It’s much like when I was a young boy. I cursed my father and he beat me with a belt. It was the only time he ever beat me with a belt. It was an “everlasting punishment” for me because it forever corrected me. I’ll never curse my father again. He’s not beating me over and over and over forever, but the effects of that punishment (kolasis) will be with me forever. That is what is meant by Jesus when he speaks of “everlasting punishment”.

We see this concept in Christ’s teachings. For example, the parable of the unfaithful servant,

Luke 12:42-48
{12:42} And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his]
lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season? {12:43} Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so
doing. {12:44} Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. {12:45} But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and
shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; {12:46} The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him,]
and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. {12:47} And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not [himself,] neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes. ]{12:48} But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes.] For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much
required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Notice here that the unfaithful servant is cut in half, and is appointed his portion with the unbelievers. This soul is punished with a fearsome punishment; he is beaten with MANY STRIPES. But the unbeliever who didn’t know his Lord’s will is beaten with FEW STRIPES. Jesus emphasizes that those who know God’s will and refuse to obey are held to greater accountability and will face more severe punishment than those who do not. But notice something… both the unfaithful servant and the wicked are beaten for only a season. They are not both held indefinitely and beaten over and over and over forever. There would be no justice in that. God is a just and Holy Ghost. He is also a righteous king who punishes evil. But His love is deep and everlasting, knowing no bounds. Even the unfaithful and unbelieving take their beatings and are eventually released, being fully corrected and broken by the God who died on the cross to save them from their sins.

Another parabolic teaching of Jesus expressing his sense of justice…
Matthew 5:25
{5:25} Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. {5:26} Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
He we are admonished to find peace with our enemies or we be delivered to the judge and we be cast into prison. We are promised that we will not be released until we’ve paid the uttermost farthing. You see, this expresses God’s justice. Man is a sinful creature the flesh is at enmity with God. We are to find peace with God while we can, or we will be delivered into punishment… and we shall not be released until we have adequately been punished for our sinfulness. Notice the prisoner isn’t held indefinitely or forever. There is release… there is reconciliation.

Even God’s fearsome and often gruesome punishment and judgment is an expression of His love, because God is indeed love. God’s punishment’s purpose is to punish the soul for sin and break the soul’s self will, bringing all souls into harmony with himself.

But there is good news. God made a way for us to be saved from his displeasure and his fearsome punishments. That way is through Christ Jesus our Lord. We read,
Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Jesus died so that no man need be forever lost, separated from God. In this life we who believe the Gospel are saved from God’s displeasure and we are assured we will not face his wrath after death. However, for the wicked… they shall be punished, suffer the flames of Hell, be beaten – a punishment that forever corrects and purifies them (an everlasting punishment). Each lost soul will be punished adequately and justly according to their works. However, the grace of God is still crying out for every last soul to come home. The gates of the New Jerusalem are never closed to those who are without. Those souls that have been adequately punished will one day looked toward the cross and find their reconciliation with God. Every last human soul. When God set out to save the world through the blood of Jesus, the cross forever provided what was necessary for the entire world to be reconciled to God. Some shall be saved by grace, others shall pass through the fires, some through the floods, some through great trials… but ALL through the blood.

TO BE CONTINUED...
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:25 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: What is the purpose of Hell?

The Old Testament declares that God would indeed SAVE THE WORLD. God never fails. God knew from before time began that all men would need an intercessor. And so God’s plan to redeem the lost souls of all men was to be found in Christ Jesus. Let’s look at what the Old Testament tells us regarding God’s ultimate plan for all humanity…
Lamentations 3: 31-32. For the Lord will not cast off for ever: But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
God does not cast off forever as most would have us believe. Yes, God causes grief, but he will have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies, for his mercy endureth forever.
Isaiah 2: 2. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
ALL nations will one day flow into the New Jerusalem.
Genesis 18: 18. Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
ALL nations of the earth will be blessed in Abraham.
Psalms 138: 4. All the kings of the earth shall praise thee, O LORD, when they hear the words of thy mouth.
ALL the kings of the earth, every king or ruler that ever lived will one day praise the LORD.
Psalms 86: 9. All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
ALL the nations that have ever existed on earth, every nation that the LORD has made will one day come and worship before GOD Almighty, and glorify his name.
Psalms 22: 27. All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee
ALL the ends of the world will one day call to mind the grace of God and turn to the LORD. In that hour all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before Him.
Psalms 66: 3-4. Say unto God, How terrible art thou in thy works! through the greatness of thy power shall thine enemies submit themselves unto thee. All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.
The enemies of God shall one day submit themselves to Him. And then ALL the earth shall worship the LORD, and sing praises unto His name.
Psalms 145: 9-16. The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works. All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee. They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk of thy power; To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom. Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations. The LORD upholdeth all that fall, and raiseth up all those that be bowed down. The eyes of all wait upon thee; and thou givest them their meat in due season. Thou openest thine hand, and satisfiest the desire of every living thing.
Isaiah 25: 6-9. And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
The LORD shall make unto ALL people a feast. The vail that has covered the hearts and minds of ALL nations shall be lifted so that ALL can see and turn to the LORD. In that day He shall swallow up death in VICTORY, and the LORD will wipe away tears from ALL faces. The rebuke of Israel shall he take away from ALL the earth, for the LORD has spoken it.

But how can that be??? How can all of mankind escape God’s wrath? Who has paid the price for every last human being from the greatest to the least??? Who sacrificed themselves to appease God for the most terrible sinner??? How can God be justified in forgiving every last soul on earth??? The New Testament tells us God’s master plan…

Jesus said,
John 12:32. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
This means if Christ be crucified he intends to draw ALL (meaning without exception) men to himself. Every soul is being drawn to Christ and WILL be drawn to Christ. Jesus didn’t die to save only 1% of mankind. Jesus will absolutely plunder Satan and bring ALL humanity into reconciliation with God. Satan wins NOTHING.
Luke 2:10. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For this reason the Gospel is tidings of great joy to ALL people.
First Corinthians 15:22.For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Romans 5:18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Adam’s sin brought death and judgment upon ALL men without exception, even so Christ’s death shall bring life and salvation to ALL men, without exception.
Philippians 2: 10-11. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
One day at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord – and the next statement is very important – TO THE GLORY of God the Father. This isn’t a forced submission, but rather an act of giving praise and glory to God through Christ Jesus that will one day be performed by ALL men. Forced worship doesn’t give God glory.
First Timothy 2: 1-6. I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
It is God’s desire that prayer and intercession be made for ALL men. It is God’s desire that ALL men be saved. When God desires something… He gets it. God is never left wanting. This is accomplished through Christ’s giving of himself as a ransom for ALL mankind, and this will be testified of in due time as the ages pass.

TO BE CONTINUED...
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