Obey Them that Rule???

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Mich.......

God sees your heart and knows your desire and all your issues. There's nothing wrong with searching and questioning and looking for answers. The wisest man who ever lived did that, as well as all of us. Some have more problem in this regard as others and like you yourself said, there are reasons why some people have more problem with trust, etc.

I believe you have a good heart and that you're sincere. If you keep your eyes on Jesus and you follow "hard" after Him and desire to please Him and be obedient to His will and purpose, you'll find your way. He will lead you.

I pray God's very best for you. While you're seeking, and learning and searching ..... maintain personal relationship with Him! The rest will fall into place. I believe that! We go through "times and seasons" in our life. Some are more difficult than others. But I know and can testify as can so many others here that Jesus never fails. It sounds cliche'-ish but it's true, and He will get you to where you need to go and need to be.

We're all special to God and He is a PERSONAL Saviour. We don't all need to be the same. We're not all formed from the same cookie-cutter. Our circumstances in life affect us deeply and profoundly and affect our view of the world and our view of ourselves. Our perspectives are not all the same and that's okay but the main thing is that you maintain personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Just as you submit yourself to your boss, your place of business, to the laws and leadership placed over you in so many ways and so many places, you'll come to the place where you'll place yourself under the leadership of a man who loves God, loves His people and who is sincerely and honestly trying to help people to grow spiritually and be saved.

I believe it!

Thank you Felicity. I believe that too. Yes, I have issues, lots of them! And I avoided dealing with them for a very very long time. They started to surface when I originally found FCF, some of you might remember that. And then, I got tired of the dealing with it. I thought if I could just squish myself back into the same mindset that I had when I was first saved. When I believed everything I was told, and did everything I was told, and didn't question anything. Well, then I would be happy and comfortable again.

Guess how well that worked? I really tried, but I couldn't silence the questions or the doubts. It was on New Year's day when it came to a head. I was sitting on my bed, with my Bible, just kinda thumbing through. And of a sudden all the questions, all the apparent contradictions all the things that didn't make sense came boiling to the surface. And I just started to cry and said "God, I really don't think its supposed to be so hard! Why do we make it so hard? Nothing makes sense anymore and I can't stand it!"

And I prayed for a while I had a realization. I didn't care about standards, I didn't care about church or its programs, or tithing, or the role of women, or even doctrine. Because all of that junk had completely clouded my view of Jesus, and I didn't even know who he was anymore. Was he the harsh judge that was just waiting for me to show I wasn't "holy" enough so he could smite me? Was he the one that demanded absolute perfection? The one for whom nothing was ever enough?

At that moment, I made a New year's resolution, that the rest of that stuff could go in the garbage for all I cared. All I wanted to know is "Who is Jesus?"

So for right now, Yes, I do think that the rest of that stuff is unimportant. All that matters is my quest to find out Who He is. After that...well...who knows...

Originally Posted by Michlow

At that moment, I made a New year's resolution, that the rest of that stuff could go in the garbage for all I cared. All I wanted to know is "Who is Jesus?"

So for right now, Yes, I do think that the rest of that stuff is unimportant. All that matters is my quest to find out Who He is. After that...well...who knows...

You are not far from the kingdom of God.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Michlow

So for right now, Yes, I do think that the rest of that stuff is unimportant. All that matters is my quest to find out Who He is. After that...well...who knows...

I agree; nothing else matters until you figure out the answer to this one.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I asked what you feel the saint's responsibilities are, according to the topic at hand. Or do you feel they have no responsibility? If you were a saint attending a church, instead of pastoring one, what would you feel obligated to do, in reference to obeying God's Word on this issue? And what would be a "deal-breaker"?

OK, I think I get it now. If I were attending a church, I would want to follow someone with a servant's heart. One who would not preach their personal convictions as scriptural mandates. One who cared about me as a person and not a tithe payer. I would follow them and not cause division even if I disagreed as long as it wasn't a moral issue. I would be loyal and faithful because I believe it is the right thing to do. I would defend them, protect them and pray for them. If I disagreed with something or something bothered me, I would go to them and share my heart.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Goodness, Michlow. I hope you don't think that my life is a bed of roses. You have no idea. But the truth is, we could all write a long list of hardships. Some more than others.

There is a woman in our church (an older woman), whose husband is suffering from colon cancer (and has been in and out of remission and chemo and radiation, etc, for over two years). Her son died about a year and a half ago from the same type of cancer. Her granddaughter has diabetes and is often sick and in the hospital. Her grandson-in-law died last year from unknown causes. Her first son was killed years back in a motorcycle accident. She herself has been weak, and had trouble with her hip, including surgery (I believe that is accurate). And yet, in all that, she continues to raise her hands in church and thank God for His goodness and she praises Him and testifies about Him at every opportunity. She always has a word of encouragement for me. I have heard her express pain, but never place blame on God for the troubles her family has endured.

This is just one example, but there are so many people who hold fast to God, and simply PUT their trust and faith in Him, no matter what, that it is difficult to comprehend how anyone with less troubles could not do the same. Job said, "Though He SLAY me, YET will I trust in Him." Job was stating his personal CHOICE on the matter.

My father used to read me a children's book called "It Could Be Worse." He read it to me quite often, and he would also read it to folks who came in for "counselling." No matter what happens to us, there is almost always someone else who has had it worse.



Of course its possible. But I believe that trust is a choice we make, not a feeling we have. I choose to trust God, even when I don't understand Him. That means that I have peace, even when I don't possess happiness, because He's the one directing my steps, and the burden is not on my shoulders.

I am no Job, and I have no desire to even try to be. To be perfectly honest, I hate it when people do the old "someone has it worse" than you bit. What that basically says to me is that my suffering is unimportant.

Please don't get the wrong idea, I am not one to go around constantly whining about my sucky life. In fact, the forum, and 2 close friends, are it. I don't discuss it at work or at church.

I was thinking more about what you said and how I responded. The truth is, when I truly believe something to be God's will, i.e. he tells me to do something, I do it, because I believe that he knows best. So I guess it would be fair to say that I trust his knoweldge or sovereignty. However, when it comes down to it...well....you know how you can love someone, but not like them?

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Thank you Felicity. I believe that too. Yes, I have issues, lots of them! And I avoided dealing with them for a very very long time. They started to surface when I originally found FCF, some of you might remember that. And then, I got tired of the dealing with it. I thought if I could just squish myself back into the same mindset that I had when I was first saved. When I believed everything I was told, and did everything I was told, and didn't question anything. Well, then I would be happy and comfortable again.

Guess how well that worked? I really tried, but I couldn't silence the questions or the doubts. It was on New Year's day when it came to a head. I was sitting on my bed, with my Bible, just kinda thumbing through. And of a sudden all the questions, all the apparent contradictions all the things that didn't make sense came boiling to the surface. And I just started to cry and said "God, I really don't think its supposed to be so hard! Why do we make it so hard? Nothing makes sense anymore and I can't stand it!"

And I prayed for a while I had a realization. I didn't care about standards, I didn't care about church or its programs, or tithing, or the role of women, or even doctrine. Because all of that junk had completely clouded my view of Jesus, and I didn't even know who he was anymore. Was he the harsh judge that was just waiting for me to show I wasn't "holy" enough so he could smite me? Was he the one that demanded absolute perfection? The one for whom nothing was ever enough?

At that moment, I made a New year's resolution, that the rest of that stuff could go in the garbage for all I cared. All I wanted to know is "Who is Jesus?"

So for right now, Yes, I do think that the rest of that stuff is unimportant. All that matters is my quest to find out Who He is. After that...well...who knows...

Ok Mich... I'm sitting here crying at my desk... it's all your fault..

The Lord gave me this back a few years ago:


Psa 27:7 Hear, O LORD, [when] I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me.
Psa 27:8 [When thou saidst], Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.
Psa 27:9 Hide not thy face [far] from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.
Psa 27:10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.
Psa 27:11 Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.
Psa 27:12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.
Psa 27:13 [I had fainted], unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.
Psa 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michlow

He was talking to Jews, who were still under the Law, of course he was going to tell them that. But we are not under OT law, and I do not think that applies.

That's rediculous, I suppose when Jesus said "do not commit adultery" that was under the law and so now it is ok to do? Or maybe it's not because the NT also tells us it's wrong...but what else does the NT tell us? "Obey them that have the rule over you"...gee that sounds oddly like Jesus saying to do what the pharisees told them to do, but don't do as they do.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I am no Job, and I have no desire to even try to be. To be perfectly honest, I hate it when people do the old "someone has it worse" than you bit. What that basically says to me is that my suffering is unimportant.

Well, that's because it is. In the grand scheme of things, our suffering can't compare to what Christ suffered, and He shouldered all of our burdens and sins. There's more trite cliches for you!!!! You know, though, the cliches are often the Truth.

Please don't get the wrong idea, I am not one to go around constantly whining about my sucky life. In fact, the forum, and 2 close friends, are it. I don't discuss it at work or at church.

I was thinking more about what you said and how I responded. The truth is, when I truly believe something to be God's will, i.e. he tells me to do something, I do it, because I believe that he knows best. So I guess it would be fair to say that I trust his knoweldge or sovereignty. However, when it comes down to it...well....you know how you can love someone, but not like them?

If they had a *chuckle* emoticon, I would add it here.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Because they have proven to you that they can be trusted. Because they have invested into your life and because they don't demand to be trusted.

Good stuff, MOW!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Ferd

i guess my question is, what are you being ordered to do that is unbiblical?

Personally if someone ordered me to do something I'd probably say "excuse me?" with an attitude, yes even to my pastor lol....

now if you ask me to do something I'd probably gladly do it and respect you even more.