More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

[returnman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When it comes to light doctrine, and comparing it with difference in prophecy outlooks, light doctrine deals with HOW TO BE SAVED. Prophecy does not deal with HOW TO BE SAVED. Salvation is based in Acts 2:38, and there are interpretations as to how much of that is experienced before salvation.

MTD, do you believe people are lost who do not hold to post trib rapture teaching?

Salvation is what I always understood as being the focus. The term was heavily used in the Northwest by Cons toward the later PCI left brethren. Yadons in particular. I could be wrong but seems Reynolds was considered light as well.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sure. On end times for starters. My Pastor back in the 80's said the Apostolic Pastor down the road was teaching false doctrine of pre trib rapture. But yet he said he was "a fine brother".

And my same post trib Pastor would be invited to preach at pre trib Churches and they said he's a "fine Apostolic man".

So even tho each group thought the other was teaching major false doctrine they still believed they all were going to Heaven. Why? Because they were Oneness and baptized in Jesus name.

Lets take a test for you Dom. You are a full fledged Preterist. You think its a great truth that Jesus came in 70ad. You think people are not in truth that believe something different.

Michael Blume is a partial pret. He does not believe Jesus came in 70ad. Is he a fine Apostolic brother to you? Even tho he thinks you are teaching error? Is Michael going to inherit eternal life even tho he is teaching (what you think) is false doctrine?

If so do you not believe in the light doctrine? That hes a good brother he just cant see what you are seeing. Or pre tribs on the forum here. Do you believe they are good godly brothers who will have eternal life? Or will they be lost for teaching falsely?

If you think they are going to be in the kingdom then you are a "light" believer, amen?

This raises a good point. Are we going to teach that being perfect in all our biblical interpretation is a requirement for salvation? How can one be saved by grace through faith and still go to Hell because he missed the mark on a minor point? That amounts to "salvation by knowledge".

What if one is undecided on a doctrinal point, eschatology, for example? Will that indecisiveness bring damnation to his soul?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Jesus did indeed come in 70 AD. Partial preterism teaches that that was a genuine coming according to Matthew 21 and 40. But a localized coming and judgment. But the second coming is yet future. So you can't say I believe Jesus didn't come in 70 AD.

I was contemplating this in my studies regarding Preterism. I tried to take into consideration that the original texts didn't have chapter breaks and I came to an interesting possibility in the Olivet Discourse. Help me if I'm mistaken:

Matthew 24 - Christ's coming in Judgment against Jerusalem.
Matthew 25 - Christ's bodily return to judge the quick and the dead.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

This raises a good point. Are we going to teach that being perfect in all our biblical interpretation is a requirement for salvation? How can one be saved by grace through faith and still go to Hell because he missed the mark on a minor point? That amounts to "salvation by knowledge".

What if one is undecided on a doctrinal point, eschatology, for example? Will that indecisiveness bring damnation to his soul?

So are you saying that, in a way, we're all walking by all the light that we know? If so, you do have a good point.

I look at it this way, if a person is a repentant believer who has been water baptized (even if in titles, and filled with the Holy Spirit... they have obeyed the Scripture, even if in all the light that was available to them. God would be justified in saving such individuals should He choose.

At the end of the day, only God can give the Holy Spirit. And if He's pouring out His Spirit on an individual, He has obviously accepted their repentance.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So are you saying that, in a way, we're all walking by all the light that we know? If so, you do have a good point.

I look at it this way, if a person is a repentant believer who has been water baptized (even if in titles, and filled with the Holy Spirit... they have obeyed the Scripture, even if in all the light that was available to them. God would be justified in saving such individuals should He choose.

At the end of the day, only God can give the Holy Spirit. And if He's pouring out His Spirit on an individual, He has obviously accepted their repentance.

I am compelled scripturally to agree.

[Aquila]

When people ask me if I believe that other Christians are going to Hell or saved, I typically argue that ultimately that is up to God to determine. My job is to preach the Gospel in the fullness of my understanding, and that involves being born of the water and the spirit. We can quibble all day over formulas and concepts of the godhead... but to even qualify for salvation it all boils down to water and spirit.

[Amanah]

Some Apostolics are looking at the AOG or IHOP and thinking, well, they do have the Holy Ghost, maybe their baptism isn't perfect, but surely that won't determine their salvation.

And the AOG are looking at the Baptists and thinking, they believe in Jesus, surely they are brothers and sisters in Christ

and the Baptists are fellowshipping the Methodists and thinking, maybe they are a bit more inclusive then we are but they love Jesus

and the Methodist are looking at the LBGTXYZ community and trying to figure out how to be more inclusive, so we don't leave anyone out.

[returnman]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Some Apostolics are looking at the AOG or IHOP and thinking, well, they do have the Holy Ghost, maybe their baptism isn't perfect, but surely that won't determine their salvation.

And the AOG are looking at the Baptists and thinking, they believe in Jesus, surely they are brothers and sisters in Christ

and the Baptists are fellowshipping the Methodists and thinking, maybe they are a bit more inclusive then we are but they love Jesus

and the Methodist are looking at the LBGTXYZ community and trying to figure out how to be more inclusive, so we don't leave anyone out.

The slippery slope defined......good one.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Some Apostolics are looking at the AOG or IHOP and thinking, well, they do have the Holy Ghost, maybe their baptism isn't perfect, but surely that won't determine their salvation.

And the AOG are looking at the Baptists and thinking, they believe in Jesus, surely they are brothers and sisters in Christ

and the Baptists are fellowshipping the Methodists and thinking, maybe they are a bit more inclusive then we are but they love Jesus

and the Methodist are looking at the LBGTXYZ community and trying to figure out how to be more inclusive, so we don't leave anyone out.

The point is that if one has been born of water and spirit, even if the formula or understanding is limited, we can let God be the judge. If the AOG begins looking at those who aren't water baptized or filled with the Holy Ghost as being saved, that's their point of departure from water and spirit. And frankly, that's their problem before God.

But as for individuals, God doesn't give the Spirit accidently. If God gives the Holy Spirit, evidently, the repentance was genuine. If they were baptized with a traditional formula, they were obedient to baptism, even though they may not have understood that there even was an original formula that differs from the historic.

[Amanah]

God gives His Spirit to lead and guide into truth, let us be the bearers of more truth, those who God uses to be a light, not those who fall back from where we came from. God is calling us to hold the line. There are Elders on this forum who would die for this truth.