Noah and the Ark

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. You're not seeing that correctly.

I'm saying that my faith in the story as it reads is more today than when I was a Day Age believer. I don't see a lack of faith, and being honest about it, as a negative thing. I see it as relatively normal.

Ok, I won't start a war over the statement but I read it again and your explanation here and still seeing the same thing so maybe I'm missing something. Either way, I won't scream and yell over it.

I should get a trophy for my self-control!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Remember, this was penned by Moses. I'm sure if Moses knew of all the scientific ramifications of the flood he'd have written it noting what he believed to be miraculous. Moses most likely simply saw it as an "Act of God".

But even Moses would have been quite shocked that 400 billion animals floated, ate, drank, pooped, and peed for 40 days on a boat and were cared for by 8 people, so it seems reasonable that if that stuff didn't happen, and they were sleeping the entire time, he would have said something about it.

[berkeley]

I purchased a black Sharpie pen. I'm going to cross out everything in the Bible that I believe is nothing more than a fairy tale. I'm going to start with the NIV, then work my way to the NLT, so on and so forth. I dare not alter the sacred KJV!!!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. You're not seeing that correctly.

I'm saying that my faith in the story as it reads is more today than when I was a Day Age believer. I don't see a lack of faith, and being honest about it, as a negative thing. I see it as relatively normal.

So you take it literal? You don't look at the Hebrew words and see that it can mean a non-specific period of time or an age?

Yet you DO that with scriptures in the NT that speak of Eternal Destruction

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Remember, this was penned by Moses. I'm sure if Moses knew of all the scientific ramifications of the flood he'd have written it noting what he believed to be miraculous. Moses most likely simply saw it as an "Act of God".

We don't know it was penned by Moses. IN fact there is evidence revealed here a day or so ago, that suggest he might not have penned it or at the least it was edited alter on by a scribe

[Esther]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Sure, its own terms. If you were to pick up a Mad Magazine (I haven't in years but I assume that it's still the same) you will approach that "literature" on its own terms. You expect something silly and nonsensical. You might groan at some of the "jokes" rather than laugh, but you are engaging the writers on their own terms.

I chose a rather extreme example to prove my point here.

However, the same approach should be used for the Bible. Is the Bible a book intending to tell the Natural History of the earth and cosmos? No.

The Bible is a collection of books written over a large period of time and so it's safe to say that there were many different local and immediate motivations behind its words. But throughout, we find the overall message is one of God's supernatural dealings with mankind.

Thus, it would be as wrong to look for a full and "accurate" Natural History of our planet from within the pages of the Bible as it would be to seek serious information regarding the U.S. Constitution on the pages of Mad Magazine.

There is no evidence whatsoever in the geologic record that the entire continental surface of the planet was covered by water withing any period in the past 6,000 years - or even a million years - or a billion!

The dimensions of an entirely wooden vessel such as the Ark of Genesis 6 could not have stayed afloat for the 4 months to a years as required by the various interpretations of Genesis.

The animals described could not have been kept alive for that time period given the dimensions and conditions of such a wooden vessel.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that this literally happened anyway, so why should we insist that it did? Our insistence serves no purpose and actually harms the faith of those who may be turning to Bible for helpful answers in this modern age.

I think the problem with too many people is they don't have faith in God's Word.

It the Bible says it I believe it and don't have a need to try and prove or disprove it.

If God kept the widow woman's meal and oil to not end, why do you think He would not be able to do the same?

Perhaps we don't see the miracle today as before is because everyone has to disect it and then discredit it.

As one minister I heard say, if the Bible said Jonah swallowed the whale I would believe it.

You either accept the Word of God as being divine inspired on you don't.

How do you explain the Red Sea rolled back? It is not something that day nor today would be capble of doing.

Have Faith in God's Word.

[berkeley]

Esther,

According to RandyWayne, it is too many miracles in the Ark saga.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Esther

I think the problem with too many people is they don't have faith in God's Word.

It the Bible says it I believe it and don't have a need to try and prove or disprove it.
Are you believing 'what the Bible says' or what someone SAYS it says? Consider that a few hundred years ago you would have been forced to believe that the Earth was the center of everything. We know what trouble Galileo got himself into with the Catholic church over his views. Now we know that his "evil science" was indeed correct.

If God kept the widow woman's meal and oil to not end, why do you think He would not be able to do the same?
Here we have the difference between the impossible and implausible. God simple created a miracle in the case of keeping the widows pots full. He did not however keep her pots full then somehow let all sorts of evidence slip that He really didn't do it.

Perhaps we don't see the miracle today as before is because everyone has to disect it and then discredit it.
It is not about setting out to discredit God, but rather look at His creation and read what it says. Should the two ever disagree?

As one minister I heard say, if the Bible said Jonah swallowed the whale I would believe it.

You either accept the Word of God as being divine inspired on you don't.
So you either accept a 6 literal day creation, or Noah's flood or throw the rest out? How many people are lost because of that ultimatum? How many would be lost if we still had some insisting that the Earth was the center of the Universe (or throw it all out!)?

How do you explain the Red Sea rolled back? It is not something that day nor today would be capable of doing.
The correct translation is NOT "Red Sea" but rather "Reed sea". It was a marsh like stretch that the Israelis crossed in escaping from the Egyptians, of which were STILL drowned based on huge tidal waves generated by sesmic activity, which also brought upon the 10 plagues previously.

Have Faith in God's Word.

So do I.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Esther

I think the problem with too many people is they don't have faith in God's Word.

It the Bible says it I believe it and don't have a need to try and prove or disprove it.

If God kept the widow woman's meal and oil to not end, why do you think He would not be able to do the same?

Perhaps we don't see the miracle today as before is because everyone has to disect it and then discredit it.

As one minister I heard say, if the Bible said Jonah swallowed the whale I would believe it.

You either accept the Word of God as being divine inspired on you don't.

How do you explain the Red Sea rolled back? It is not something that day nor today would be capble of doing.

Have Faith in God's Word.

What you say sounds spiritual and Godly. But I believe there are two things to consider:

1) What if there is more to learn form all this? What if there's a greater truth to the "Red Sea" than, "Wow, God sure done killed those suckers!" What if there is a worthwhile value of spiritual enrichment that could make our lives more productive and fulfilled? We may miss what God could teach us by just focusing on how, "God'll wipe out our enemies!!"

2) The minister you quoted...it sounds wonderful. But it simply doesn't wash with an educated post-modern culture. That man wouldn't have a chance talking to a suspicious, cynical college student. But Pelathias would be able to hold a meaningful dialogue with anyone on the subject. Unfortunately, the details of Noah's Ark aren't possible by any study of physics. We need to be able to say something besides, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." Our post-modern culture equivocates "Noah's Ark" and "Jonah & the Whale" with "Jack & Jill" and "Humpty Dumpty."

And we're losing. Professions of Christ-faith have dropped radically over the last 21 years. Teenagers? Even the most optimistic of surveys reveal that less than 10% profess Christ-faith. And of the Christian high-schoolers that go to college? 75% of them walk away from their faith during that time.

We're losing and we have to have better dialogue with the unchurched than, "The bible said it, now you better believe it or you'll burn in hell."

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by notofworks

What you say sounds spiritual and Godly. But I believe there are two things to consider:

1) What if there is more to learn form all this? What if there's a great truth to the "Red Sea" than, "Wow, God sure done killed those suckers!" What if there is a worthwhile value of spiritual enrichment that could make our lives more productive and fulfilled? We may miss what God could teach us by just focusing on how, "God'll wipe out our enemies!!"

2) The minister you quoted...it sounds wonderful. But it simply doesn't wash with an educated post-modern culture. That man wouldn't have a chance talking to a suspicious, cynical college student. But Pelathias would be able to hold a meaningful dialogue with anyone on the subject. Unfortunately, the details of Noah's Ark aren't possible by any study of physics. We need to be able to say something besides, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." Our post-modern culture equivocates "Noah's Ark" and "Jonah & the Whale" with "Jack & Jill" and "Humpty Dumpty."

And we're losing. Professions of Christ-faith have dropped radically over the last 21 years. Teenagers? Even the most optimistic of surveys reveal that less than 10% profess Christ-faith. And of the Christian high-schoolers that go to college? 75% of them walk away from their faith during that time.

We're losing and we have to have better dialogue with the unchurched than, "The bible said it, now you better believe it or you'll burn in hell."

well articulated post.