Apology to World

[n david]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

It is also a well-known fact that much of the money that funds Islamic radicals comes from the poppy drug trade. The drugs somehow find their way up the noses of christian nations <shrug>. The "funding" is always in dollars. The arms are never produced in these raggedy countries. They always come from somewhere else. Saudi Arabia certainly does not produce or export arms. Iran has no uranium within its own borders. Every uranium deposit in the world is clocked and tracked and identified. You can google it and get the list of (9) or (10) countries for yourself. Nobody on this site can deny that the foremost leader of world terror, Bin Laden, was trained, funded, supplied, and propped up by the US to fight the russians as a proxy. There would have been NO taliban and there would have been NO bin laden had there been no stinger missles, RPG's, grenades, guns, ammo, and other toys along with plenty of (again dollars) handed to those people by US government operatives.

You think Sudan makes ANYTHING of value? Do you know anything about Sudan? Sudan is a raggedy sandpile. Main source of income 150 years ago? Dollars. From the slave trade. lol. Go figure. Same time the Taliban was being trained and funded (80's) what was happening in Sudan? From Wiki: Western countries began supplying Sudan again in the mid 1970s. The United States began selling Sudan a great deal of equipments around 1976, hoping to counteract Soviet support of Marxist Ethiopians and Libyans. Military sales peaked in 1982 at US$101 million. After the start of the second civil war, American assistance dropped, and was eventually all but cancelled in 1987

Do your "white power" right wing articles ever reference recent history? Do they ever describe events leading up to their "calls to arms". I guess not. When the president does it you act shocked. I have no doubt that the "national review" was begging reagan to POUR arms and funding into these same raggedy countries that it is now calling to pound out of existance. The NR at that time called for anything but confront the russians face to face. I know. I was quite the hawk back then.

Moving on to Iraq and those terrible chemical weapons: first it was arms to iran for hostages (they were mad because we quit selling arms to them) then it was arms to iraq to teach iran a lesson

Tens of thousands of Iranian civilians and military personnel were killed when Iraq used chemical weapons in its warfare. Iraq was financially backed by Egypt, the Arab countries of the Persian Gulf, the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact states, the United States (beginning in 1983), France, the United Kingdom, Germany, Brazil, and the People's Republic of China (which also sold weapons to Iran).

It was perfectly OK back then (WE were angry about the iranian hostages) to pour weapons, technology, money, and support into Iraq so that they could fight their 10-year war with Iran. We could have cared less about "chemical weapons" or "weapons of mass destruction" while they were hurled across the border into Iran.

What kicked off the Iranian revolution? The excesses of the Shah regime and their relationships with the western oil consortiums. I currently and sadly see a parallel in Saudi Arabia.

Your "massive financial support" means little until the guns and ammo start arriving. Recent history indicates that each of these countries was deliberately used as a proxy to fight our battles for us. The guns and ammo arrive stamped "made in USA" and we have NO RIGHT to complain when our proxies turn back against us after we discard them. We also have no right to act stunned if we use them and get hated for it. After all, the spilled blood always ends up on THEIR soil not ours so who cares?

[SOUNWORTHY]

Haggar should have aborted Iahmael, save everyone a big headache!!

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

It is also
[/U][/B]

Do your "white power" right wing articles ever reference recent history? Do they ever describe events leading up to their "calls to arms". I guess not. When the president does it you act shocked. I have no doubt that the "national review" was begging reagan to POUR arms and funding into these same raggedy countries that it is now calling to pound out of existance. The NR at that time called for anything but confront the russians face to face. I know. I was quite the hawk back then.

Wii- I believe Obama won the election because no one wanted to be called a racist. Consequently, I reject any attempt at sliding racism inuendo into a discussion about why Muslims continue to directly or indirectly support radical extremists who destroy, maim and kill in the name of Allah.

What has opium got to do with burning churches in the name of Allah? What have actions on the part of other nations to do with hanging homosexuals? What have uranium deposits got to do with old women being beaten for being in the company of a non-relative male who was delivering bread? What have weapons got to do with a woman being condemned because she was gang raped? What has chemical weapons got to do with acid being thrown on young girls on their way to school in the name of Allah?

What has your post got to do with the observation that the so called "few extreme radicals" cannot exist and succeed without the direct or indirect sanction and support of the people who pray to Allah?

[Walks_in_islam]

Because for SURE they cannot exist without money, weapons, and power, and those things do NOT come from within the Muslim communities.

Opium has to do with funding. You brought up funding and support.

Yeah. Obama won the election because everyone was afraid to be racist. Except who would know how who voted? lol

Homos are simply unwelcome in some countries. It is not like the law is unclear or unknown. Personally I find it a bit harsh but it's the law in some places. I don't make excuses for homos. I'm not catholic lol.

Apply your logic to the other side of your news stories? This old woman who was beaten was a Muslim. Do you imply that this innocent Muslim woman "supported" or "provided support" for this act JUST because she was a Muslim? Well, of course she did. She is Muslim. She 'supports' these deeds. She asked for it, right? She's a 'supporter' in your book because of her faith.

Do you imply that the gang-raped girl, who also was an innocent Muslim, "provided support" or "supports" her rapists? She is a "Muslim" so because she is Muslim she "must support bad deeds 'in the name of Allah' right? In your book she practices Islam, she asked for it because she 'supports' it.

Do you imply that a young Muslim girl on her way to school "supports" or in any way, shape, or form "provides support" to her attackers? Hey, she is Muslim. She followed Islam. So of course she must "provide support for bad deeds 'in the name of Allah' right?. By your logic yes.

I do not "support" or "provide support" for these acts either. Nor do I speak for those or sanction those who do.

Originally Posted by Newman

Wii- I believe Obama won the election because no one wanted to be called a racist. Consequently, I reject any attempt at sliding racism inuendo into a discussion about why Muslims continue to directly or indirectly support radical extremists who destroy, maim and kill in the name of Allah.

What has opium got to do with burning churches in the name of Allah? What have actions on the part of other nations to do with hanging homosexuals?

What have uranium deposits got to do with old women being beaten for being in the company of a non-relative male who was delivering bread?

What have weapons got to do with a woman being condemned because she was gang raped? What has chemical weapons got to do with acid being thrown on young girls on their way to school in the name of Allah?

What has your post got to do with the observation that the so called "few extreme radicals" cannot exist and succeed without the direct or indirect sanction and support of the people who pray to Allah?

[Walks_in_islam]

What a poignant answer lol

Originally Posted by n david

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Because for SURE they cannot exist without money, weapons, and power, and those things do NOT come from within the Muslim communities.

Opium has to do with funding. You brought up funding and support.

Yeah. Obama won the election because everyone was afraid to be racist. Except who would know how who voted? lol

Homos are simply unwelcome in some countries. It is not like the law is unclear or unknown. Personally I find it a bit harsh but it's the law in some places. I don't make excuses for homos. I'm not catholic lol.

Apply your logic to the other side of your news stories? This old woman who was beaten was a Muslim. Do you imply that this innocent Muslim woman "supported" or "provided support" for this act JUST because she was a Muslim? Well, of course she did. She is Muslim. She 'supports' these deeds. She asked for it, right? She's a 'supporter' in your book because of her faith.

Do you imply that the gang-raped girl, who also was an innocent Muslim, "provided support" or "supports" her rapists? She is a "Muslim" so because she is Muslim she "must support bad deeds 'in the name of Allah' right? In your book she practices Islam, she asked for it because she 'supports' it.

Do you imply that a young Muslim girl on her way to school "supports" or in any way, shape, or form "provides support" to her attackers? Hey, she is Muslim. She followed Islam. So of course she must "provide support for bad deeds 'in the name of Allah' right?. By your logic yes.

I do not "support" or "provide support" for these acts either. Nor do I speak for those or sanction those who do.

1. It was not just fear of being labeled a racist that brought Obama to office; although that probably hindered those that called for him to produce his birth certificate, school records, medical records, legal cases worked on, and selective service registration.

Ultimately, however it was a failure of the media to vet him. The media was responsibe for not covering these ommissions and looking more carefully into his assoications. Most of the American public knew more about Sarah Palin's daughter and Joe the Plumber than they knew about Obama when they voted.

2. The barbaric acts in the name of Allah that I brought up do not require very much money at all. A rope, a knife, a whip, acid....

And frankly there are more than just a handful of extreme radicals involved in this kind of terror or else it would be publically renounced and the perpetrators would be brought to justice.

I don't believe I have ever claimed that all Muslims provide support for these actions. Obviously, the victims were not "Muslim enough" or they wouldn't have been victims.

3. Do you support those actions? NO. But have you spoken out against them? Of course not! You wouldn't be alive today, would you?

So there has got to be a much bigger base then a few radicals who perpetuate these crimes against humanity. And in fact; it seems that many of the Mosques teach Islam in a less peaceful rendition. Otherwise, the perpetrators in the name of Allah would be brought to swift end instead of those that would stand against it.

[SOUNWORTHY]

Originally Posted by Newman

1. It was not just fear of being labeled a racist that brought Obama to office; although that probably hindered those that called for him to produce his birth certificate, school records, medical records, legal cases worked on, and selective service registration.

Ultimately, however it was a failure of the media to vet him. The media was responsibe for not covering these ommissions and looking more carefully into his assoications. Most of the American public knew more about Sarah Palin's daughter and Joe the Plumber than they knew about Obama when they voted.

2. The barbaric acts in the name of Allah that I brought up do not require very much money at all. A rope, a knife, a whip, acid....

And frankly there are more than just a handful of extreme radicals involved in this kind of terror or else it would be publically renounced and the perpetrators would be brought to justice.

I don't believe I have ever claimed that all Muslims provide support for these actions. Obviously, the victims were not "Muslim enough" or they wouldn't have been victims.

3. Do you support those actions? NO. But have you spoken out against them? Of course not! You wouldn't be alive today, would you?

So there has got to be a much bigger base then a few radicals who perpetuate these crimes against humanity. And in fact; it seems that many of the Mosques teach Islam in a less peaceful rendition. Otherwise, the perpetrators in the name of Allah would be brought to swift end instead of those that would stand against it.

If he doesn't speak out against them, he supports them. It's just that simple.

[Walks_in_islam]

I know it was just not fear of being labelled a racist that brought Obama to office. I am glad you see that light. WASPs just HATE the idea that he might just have been honestly elected lol.

Those victims were innocent Muslims. Their perpetrators were criminals. Your inability to separate the two tells me that you have "Muslims" classified as one group and you have everyone in the group, regardless of who they are, where they live, where they are from, or what they do in one category and everything you see or hear about that category is automatically applied to the group as a whole. So, with that in mind, and since Muslims and the Muslim faith are de-humanized to you anyway, I will spend a little time sharing with you what I have observed that you, your beliefs, and your faith represent. I do not see you people speaking up about this. To me, that makes you supporters of those who rob the old and disabled, sexually assault children, and what's up with that dog? Building trust with these people "in the name of Jesus", victimizing them, then looking overseas for others to condemn are contemptible actions.

FORT WAYNE, Ind. (Indiana's NewsCenter) - A Fort Wayne pastor and businessman is accused of stealing money from the accounts of developmentally disabled adults living in group homes that he oversees. 56-year-old Ernest Beal, junior is charged with one-count of felony theft.

"In the name of Jesus"

CENTER HILL -- A former youth pastor was charged with four counts of sexual battery Tuesday, on accusations he had a four-year sexual relationship with a teen-aged member of the church. Jose Alfredo Coronado, 38, of Center Hill, was arrested at his job at the Sumter County Supervisor of Elections office. He is being held at the Sumter County jail in lieu of $120,000 bail.

"In the name of Jesus"

A pastor for the Church of God of Prophecy in Salt Lake City faces felony charges for allegedly exposing himself on the Internet and asking a police officer posing as a minor sexually explicit questions. The pastor faces four third-degree felony charges of attempted dealing in material harmful to a minor after an investigation by the Utah Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) task force. The 67-year-old was in a chat room when he asked the questions and exposed himself on a Web camera, according to a news release from the Utah Attorney General's Office. This occurred several times, including once while he was using the Internet while visiting his wife in the hospital, the release said.

"In the name of Jesus"

REIDSVILLE, N.C. -- A Reidsville man is in jail after police said a 15-year-old girl said he had sexual dealings with her. Rockingham County sheriff's deputies said 56-year-old Gary Thomas Wheeler had sex with the teenager since early 2009. Wheeler told deputies he is a self employed painter and pastor of a Pentecostal Holiness Church in Rockingham County.

"In the name of Jesus"

MIAMI, May 19 (UPI) -- U.S. officials say a Florida pastor led a real estate money laundering operation on behalf of Miami cocaine dealers. A federal indictment unsealed Monday in Miami alleged Garry Souffrant, 33, identified as the pastor of God First Ministries in Miami Gardens, Fla
A Maryland pastor has been charged with multiple counts of sexual child abuse. The Charles County Sheriffs Special Victims Unit arrested Tony Ray Malbrough, 44, of Indian Head, on January 18.

"In the name of Jesus" <sniff>

Charles County Sheriffs began investigating when they were contacted by a 14-year-old boy who reported he had been sexually abused by Malbrough, while receiving music lessons at Malbrough's home. Police say their investigators learned that the abuse occurred on multiple occasions over a period of years, and involved other children known to the 14-year-old victim. Police say at the time of the alleged abuse, Malbrough was a pastor at a church in Charles county.

"In the name of Jesus"

It's another prison sentence for the pastor of a Woodlawn church accused of sexually abusing boys in his congregation. Gerald Griffith pleaded guilty Wednesday in Towson to child sexual abuse in a case involving five Baltimore County accusers.

"In the name of Jesus"

A youth pastor was arrested at his church Thursday on charges he sexually abused a child, records show.Justin Ray Peterson, 31, was arrested at 2 p.m. at River of Life Church in Lutz, jail records show. He is a youth pastor at the church.

"In the name of Jesus"

Sheriff's deputies in Louisiana made a third arrest Wednesday in the ongoing investigation of a case involving allegations of sexual abuse of children and animals at a Ponchatoula, La., church.

Austin Aaron Bernard III, 36, was arrested on a charge of aggravated rape of a child under the age of 13. Police said Bernard confessed to detectives that he had sex with a young girl in November 2002 and admitted to knowing about sexual acts involving children and a dog that occurred at Hosanna Church.

"In the name of Jesus" <woof> <woof>

Former youth pastor Timothy Edmonds was sentenced to 10- to 20-years in prison for sexual abuse of a teenaged girl.

"In the name of Jesus"

A pastor described by police as charismatic and controlling pleaded guilty Wednesday to numerous counts of child rape and molestation involving five young girls in Kitsap County.

"In the name of Jesus"

In what the detective investigating it described as Missouri's biggest clergy sex-abuse to date, Shawn Davies, a 33-year-old former music and youth minister, was sentenced Jan. 12 to 20 years in prison for molesting children at First Baptist Church of Greenwood, Mo. Davies was convicted of 25 counts of abuse dating from 2003. Charges included statutory sodomy, furnishing pornographic material to minors, supplying liquor to minors, sexual misconduct with a child under the age of 14, use of a child in sexual performance and endangering the welfare of a child.

"In the name of Jesus"

Originally Posted by Newman

1. It was not just fear of being labeled a racist that brought Obama to office; although that probably hindered those that called for him to produce his birth certificate, school records, medical records, legal cases worked on, and selective service registration.

Ultimately, however it was a failure of the media to vet him. The media was responsibe for not covering these ommissions and looking more carefully into his assoications. Most of the American public knew more about Sarah Palin's daughter and Joe the Plumber than they knew about Obama when they voted.

2. The barbaric acts in the name of Allah that I brought up do not require very much money at all. A rope, a knife, a whip, acid....

And frankly there are more than just a handful of extreme radicals involved in this kind of terror or else it would be publically renounced and the perpetrators would be brought to justice.

I don't believe I have ever claimed that all Muslims provide support for these actions. Obviously, the victims were not "Muslim enough" or they wouldn't have been victims.

3. Do you support those actions? NO. But have you spoken out against them? Of course not! You wouldn't be alive today, would you?

So there has got to be a much bigger base then a few radicals who perpetuate these crimes against humanity. And in fact; it seems that many of the Mosques teach Islam in a less peaceful rendition. Otherwise, the perpetrators in the name of Allah would be brought to swift end instead of those that would stand against it.

[Praxeas]

Oh we speak out very MUCH against those that do such things...however you made a misake there.

Just because they claim to be Christians and do something wrong does not mean they were doing it "in the name of Jesus"...unlike many extremist muslims that shout Allāhu Akbar! as they are doing such deeds.

Your news paper examples don't show someone doing something bad as part of their christian duty

[Walks_in_islam]

I did not make a mistake. Again, using the umbrella of christianity or using the umbrella of Islam to do bad deeds is equally wrong. Does it make a difference if the pedo does not "shout" while he performs his action? The person who shot the abortion doctor was not doing his "christian duty"? These things keep happening don't they Prax? These people are set up in leadership positions in their respective churches and supported by the members of those churches and this happens while they perform their "christian duty". No they are not spoken up against, not enough. Non-christians have to come in, take these people away, and prosecute them for these actions. These people used their place as christian leaders to perform these deeds. On this "speaking up". Who is left to speak in Afghanistan, in Iran, in Sudan? WE (the US) gave these regimes arms, financing, and power. These regimes are totalitarian in nature. Old saying: Power corrupts. Absolute power absolutely corrupts. There are Muslim countries where these things are not done and not accepted and muslim countries where they are. There are Muslim countries where there is religious tolerance and Muslim countries where there is not. I have seen them both. As an American and a Muslim I prefer the former. As an American and a Muslim I also wish to see a stop to providing military and financial support to the latter. Even if it IS at times politically expedient or means we can get cheap oil or means that the regime can fight our battles for us.

This post started as a discussion of Obama's apology. This post did not start as an "Islam bashing" party. His apology was to muslims hurt by the Taliban, Iran's muslim neighbors who now have guns and potentially nuclear weapons pointed at them, and other places in the world where WE replaced one bad thing with another with no thought to the consequences of our actions.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Oh we speak out very MUCH against those that do such things...however you made a misake there.

Just because they claim to be Christians and do something wrong does not mean they were doing it "in the name of Jesus"...unlike many extremist muslims that shout Allāhu Akbar! as they are doing such deeds.

Your news paper examples don't show someone doing something bad as part of their christian duty