Another reason NOT to vote for Obama

[ChristopherHall]

The issue at hand here is exactly what Bro. DT stated above...no one is asking some of the very important questions. No one is asking why we've been promised time and time again that our nation's salvation depends upon a Republican being elected, but then after they are elected they forget about us and the preeminent moral issues facing our nation. Oh, they appoint judges, but these judges do more for corporations than they do the unborn. They do more to protect and enthrone corporate power over the individual American than protect the sanctity of marriage. Yet every election they whip out the same ol’ issues we’ve rehashed over 30 years now with little to no progress. We are only allowed to ask certain questions…but never hold the powers that be accountable for their abuse of our values and religion to manipulate us. They cut grants to food banks and charities that help the widows and the fatherless, they cut funding for programs that help poor women with WIC. Why? To facilitate the almighty tax cuts that primarily benefit only the top 2% of America’s wealthiest powers….and it doesn’t trickle down, they invest it, often overseas. They say it’s important to get a conservative justice to resolve these issue…but they hardly ever rule in our favor. Oh…but they will rule that the government has power over our civil liberties like our right to privacy as protected by the 4th Amendment. They rule that municipalities have the power to take land from us and give it to massive corporate conglomerates. But no body is willing to question why. These corporations and companies offer domestic partner benefits that fuel the gay marriage debate. Oh…we hear about the gay marriage debate’s political side…but who is calling this private entities on what started this mess…the abominable practice of “domestic partner” benefits? These under mine marriage tremendously, perhaps even more than a few fruits, nuts, and flakes having a freak-show ceremony in San Francisco. When Ronald Reagan was Gov. of California he popularized “no fault divorce” and state after state followed suit with laws permitting these grave abominations. Today getting a divorce is easier than getting married. No one is asking the questions. Sadly…no one is expected to. And when someone does they are called immature and a myriad of other pejorative labels.

The Republicans have lied to us and anyone with any brains can see this. The conservative Christian political movement is like Jimmy Carter. Every election we sit down and negotiate with the Republicans and agree to give them our vote with the hopes that in turn they will get the power and address the issues we feel are pressing on our society…and then they burn their copy of the contract after being elected. And amazingly the next election the same Christians who convinced us to vote Republican the last election come out like addicted gamblers at a horse race telling us we have to put some more money down, this election is it; this election is the most important in our history. Yep they feverishly argue that the issues of abortion and gay marriage will be decided by this very election and we better vote Republican. If we question them we are labeled Socialists, Liberals, Immature, irreligious, unchristian, and unfaithful. We are made to feel like we are somehow less than Christian. We are accused of being baby killers because we didn’t vote Republican and Sodomites if we vote Democrat. It doesn’t matter if that Democrat is giving the middle class that we live in a tax break that will help us keep our homes, our very roofs over our heads, all that matters is that we are not voting the way they expect us to. The Christian church in America has become just another political action committee in faithful service to the RNC. The Church doesn’t have what it takes to punish the RNC for it’s neglecting our God’s causes. These causes are the cause of God, not Republicans. To elect a Republican again would be patting them on the back telling them to continue lying to us and eviscerating our Constitutional liberties.

Does this mean we vote Democratic? If the Democrats will truly act on issues important to you as a Christian, issues like:

Poverty
Health Care
Environmental Stewardship
Social Justice
War vs. Peace
World Hunger
Racial Discrimination
Economics
Labor

….I see no issue with your vote going for them. At least they will most likely act on the issue you elect them to act on, unlike our Republican snake oil salesmen.

Or maybe you can’t bring yourself to vote Democratic because of issues like abortion and gay marriage. You’re in good company, perhaps the majority of popular Evangelical Christianity will feel as you do. You have the option of not voting. As an individual your not voting is your choice not to participate in a system that is becoming hopelessly corrupt and godless. And if you vote, one can write in Jesus Christ. I wonder how many votes Jesus would get if Christians started a “Vote Jesus” campaign to slap the Republicans as a lesson that they better wake up and do what they promise. “But the Democrats would win!” What’s the difference? You didn’t vote for them. Welcome to Rome, dear Christian Brother. They don’t do things like God would have them. We have to convert them on a personal level. “But a vote for the Republican is a vote for the lesser of two evils.” Ah…but it is still a vote for evil. Who would you vote for Nero or Caligula? Who’s the lesser of two evils? Obviously most Christians couldn’t vote for either in good conscience.

But if you feel the absolute need to vote Republican...don’t denigrate your brethren who don’t. Don’t call them communists, socialists, or anything of the like. Most vote for a party based on issues important to them. Just because one cares about Health Care or the Environment after realizing that nothing’s changing about abortion, it doesn’t mean they favor abortion. It just means they believe that progress can be more readily made in these other areas whereas progress isn’t going to be gained on abortion or gay marriage. It’s fine to talk about the issues…but let’s leave the name calling and labeling at the door.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Ferd

To suggest that Gerald Ford was anti abortion is likely a strech. Stevens is as bad as ginsburg. and Suter was a mistake. Kennedy was more conservitive early on and moved to the center. so now we have 4 good guys in Thomas, Scalia, Roberts and Alito.

I dont know exactly what McCain will do but I know exactly what Obama will do. Obama will give us two Ginsburgs.

if McCain gives us two Kennedy's we wont have the abortion issue back in the political process, but things over all will be far better than the idiots Obama would give us.

I dont want the supreme court to outlaw Aboriton. I want the supreme court to say they dont control it and thus the legislature will have to decide.

the issue isnt outlawing abortion, the issue is driving the law making process back to the legislature.

But they discussed that in previous cases. It was discussed as to if the state has the right to essentially seize a woman’s body (legally defined as person) and force her to give birth. As heinous as abortion is, the court decided that it’s best to rule that women have a right over their own bodies and that the government cannot seize their persons thereby relegating the issue to individual choice. In a sense it’s a very conservative position seeing that it limits the power of government over the individual. However, we as Christians agree that this is at the expense of the unborn child. But how does the court decide whose rights to affirm and who’s to deny? They felt it was too complex an issue to be considered an issue of government seeing that the life and person of the mother and the life and person of the unborn child are so intertwined.

Is it possible that conservatives go liberal on this issue? Are we too lazy to preach the gospel and reach out to poor women (remember most women who procure abortions are living in or near the poverty level) to help them when they have a crisis pregnancy and expect the government to moderate this behavior?

And if it does get passed down to the state legislatures…what will be the penalty of procuring an abortion? Life in prison? Six months? Death penalty? A fine? I’m willing to wager they will make it a fine. Why? Because then the crime becomes a revenue generating offense. Prison or capital punishment will be too expensive and controversial. The government will find a way to make money off of aborted babies. Now…is that “Christian”?

Ferd, please offer me the follow through on your reasoning. Explain what happens in a situation where a woman procures abortion from the discovery of the crime to her prosecution and subsequent criminal penalty.

Don’t get me wrong, abortion matters to me. But my immediate family comes first. Convince me that it’s worth selling out to the Republican machine when my family needs a middle class tax breaks the Democrats are promising. We’re about to loose everything we’ve worked for and I have a son going on two years old. We’re working with the bank right now praying that we don’t loose our home. Convince me it’s worth putting my family’s well being on the chopping block.