Loren Yadon's: Tragedies of War????

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The thing is is that Dan calls threestepper's heretics. He has taken on the mantle of those who are divisive amongst the threestepper crowd and now uses it to support the onestepper doctrine in the same divisive manner.

It's really sad we couldn't stay in the same fellowship (UPC) and fellowship the difference because the end result is the same.

I understand that sentiment... but I definitely don't believe that the end result is necessarily the same.

In many [or most?] 1-stepper Pentecostal churches (whether Oneness or Trinitarian), the Holy Ghost baptism is not emphasized or preached with a sense of urgency. In such places, where the Holy Ghost baptism is often taught as being just an added "second blessing", people will often sit in those churches for years and not seek the Holy Ghost because they've been told they're "okay" simply because they "accepted Jesus". (I've known several such people personally, including one man who told me he didnt care about seeking the Holy Ghost infilling because... in his words: "I dont want spiritual gifts". )

An example that's been discussed on this forum before is the Assemblies of God denomination, whose own statistics showed that only about 25% of their "converts" had gotten water baptized and 20% had received the Holy Ghost baptism. (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...07&postcount=7)
That's the kind of thing that can and does happen in environments where water baptism and Holy Ghost infilling are taught as things that are "good to have", but not essential to be saved.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Sam,

Knowing that, how does that factor in Pastoral application or counseling a inquirer regarding the How to become a Christian in your mind?

Bump for Sam!

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Innocuous

Well, I guess that depends on the meaning of 'if you could'. Does that mean that I'd actually be able influence positive change in the org or that I'd merely have the position/opportunity to attempt change. Barring a miraculous intervention of God I don't think the former is possible, the problems are systemic and the various camps are entrenched. You couldn't pay me enough to do the latter, it'd be a waste of time and energy.

Unless God called you to do just that. What He calls us to do He enables and empowers us to do. I'm sure, as a preacher, you know that. "... not for filthy lucre..." God's blessing on you Innocuous.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Sam,

Knowing that, how does that factor in Pastoral application or counseling a inquirer regarding the How to become a Christian in your mind?

Over the years I have prayed with several people as they committed or recommitted themselves to Jesus. If they needed it, I would lead them in a simple prayer in which they admitted their need of salvation as sinners; confessed faith in the death, burial and resurrection; asked Jesus Christ to forgive their sin; asked Jesus Christ to come into their life and help them live for Him. Depending on the situation (some of these were over the phone) I would then encourage them to begin attending a church and to be baptized in water.

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by Theophil

Unless God called you to do just that. What He calls us to do He enables and empowers us to do. I'm sure, as a preacher, you know that. "... not for filthy lucre..." God's blessing on you Innocuous.

Come on dude, you know what I meant. Obviously if the Lord were to call me to something I'd give it my best shot even if I didn't get paid a dime. Even something as hopeless what we're talking about here.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Innocuous

"... if the Lord were to call me to something I'd give it my best shot even if I didn't get paid a dime. Even something as hopeless what we're talking about here.

Maybe...

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by Theophil

Maybe...

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong...I wish I was wrong. The UPC really does have something to offer the church/world...and it's not what they think. If that were to ever happen I'd be the happiest guy in the woild.

[Sam]

These are pictures from page 126 of Olive Haney's biography of Clyde Haney

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I understand that sentiment... but I definitely don't believe that the end result is necessarily the same.

In many [or most?] 1-stepper Pentecostal churches (whether Oneness or Trinitarian), the Holy Ghost baptism is not emphasized or preached with a sense of urgency. In such places, where the Holy Ghost baptism is often taught as being just an added "second blessing", people will often sit in those churches for years and not seek the Holy Ghost because they've been told they're "okay" simply because they "accepted Jesus". (I've known several such people personally, including one man who told me he didnt care about seeking the Holy Ghost infilling because... in his words: "I dont want spiritual gifts". )

An example that's been discussed on this forum before is the Assemblies of God denomination, whose own statistics showed that only about 25% of their "converts" had gotten water baptized and 20% had received the Holy Ghost baptism. (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...07&postcount=7)
That's the kind of thing that can and does happen in environments where water baptism and Holy Ghost infilling are taught as things that are "good to have", but not essential to be saved.

Do you think it was a mistake for the PCI and the PAJC to unite?

[Billy Boy]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you think it was a mistake for the PCI and the PAJC to unite?

Nope, It was a good thing- it probably would not happen today though, we have gone backwards! The more uniting the better, in my book!