Obey Them that Rule???

[Coonskinner]

Reality check--nobody can "make" anybody submit.

I don't expend a whole lot of mental or other energy on getting anybody to submit. If they don't, that is between them and God, and they are the loser.

I work on being someone trustworthy and easy to submit to.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Example:

A couple of years ago, I was invited to rejoin the UPC GODS WILL? I did not want to. GOOD MAN!
But I counselled with my elders, and they told me [ARE THEY GOD?]

FIRST MISTAKE!
I should do it. I did not want to, but since I have submitted myself to these men, knowing that I don't always see things clearly, and can't afford to be a law unto myself, I did as they said. I submitted my will to theirs. Everybody needs that in their life.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

If there is no one in your life who can jerk you up short and make you listen once in a while, there is a subtle transformation that takes place in your mind and spirit.

You get more and more autonomous in your thinking,
YOU MEAN THINK FOR YOUR SELF?

and more and more strong-willed.
YOU MEAN SEARCH OUT GODS WILL AND NOT MANS?

This is a condition that sets you up for deception,
SETS YOU UP FOR UNDERSTANDING?

because you are your ultimate authority
IF GOD BE FOR YOU?

, and there are no checks and balances on your will and your ego.

God knew we needed the sometimes abrasive influence of authority figures in our life to keep us from becoming so full of ourselves that we become unteachable.

YOU REALLY MENT: abrasive influence of authority figures in our life to keep us from becoming WHAT GOD HAS FOR US AND Become unteachable.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Huh?

LOL, ooops...there is Michlow being too transparent again. God is in control, right? He "allows" things to happen to us. God is sovereign. Agreed?

Well, I have had a pretty sucky life. And it will most likely continue to be so, and most people who have known me for any length of time can guess as to some of the reasons why.

I know that I am not without responsibility, as well as the fact that we live in a fallen world...yadda yadda yadda...

So like I said I am honest about my struggles and doubts. Yes, I struggle often between what I KNOW and what I FEEL. Sometimes I FEEL that God is capricious, and I often wonder when he is going to cause me immense pain and suffering again, "for my own good". And sometimes I feel resentful. My lot in like really sucks, and I am trapped, no way out, and lucky me, I get to suffer for another 50 years.

I wish I could be all "praise the Lord, he smites me daily, hallelujah", but I am just not as spiritual as some.

LOL, I just read that over, and it really borders on bitter, and I'm really not. But yes, I do have trust issues.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Michlow

LOL, ooops...there is Michlow being too transparent again. God is in control, right? He "allows" things to happen to us. God is sovereign. Agreed?

Actually, I thought perhaps you had mistyped. That was the reason for my "huh". God has never done anything bad to me. When things go badly (and they have many, many times), I don't blame Him. He's the one who has helped me through those times. I can't really even wrap my mind around your thoughts, and I'm not holding your honesty against you. It really just doesn't compute. I was raised by parents who never had it good, who lost people they loved, who went through many painful experiences, who were never rich, and who, so long as they were saved, never held those things against God.

I don't think its good to even voice those kinds of thoughts, but to rather rebuke them, when you feel them rising up within you.

Well, I have had a pretty sucky life. And it will most likely continue to be so, and most people who have known me for any length of time can guess as to some of the reasons why.

I know that I am not without responsibility, as well as the fact that we live in a fallen world...yadda yadda yadda...

So like I said I am honest about my struggles and doubts. Yes, I struggle often between what I KNOW and what I FEEL. Sometimes I FEEL that God is capricious, and I often wonder when he is going to cause me immense pain and suffering again, "for my own good". And sometimes I feel resentful. My lot in like really sucks, and I am trapped, no way out, and lucky me, I get to suffer for another 50 years.

I wish I could be all "praise the Lord, he smites me daily, hallelujah", but I am just not as spiritual as some.

LOL, I just read that over, and it really borders on bitter, and I'm really not. But yes, I do have trust issues.

Well, then, this whole thread is moot in reference to you in particular. Until you learn to trust God, everything else is for naught.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by COOPER

YOU REALLY MENT: abrasive influence of authority figures in our life to keep us from becoming WHAT GOD HAS FOR US AND Become unteachable.

Coop:

You are a great guitar player.

You sing pretty well.

They aren't really my style, but you are a gifted songwriter.

But when it comes to telling me what I really "MENT [sic]," you don't cut the mustard.

Thanks for playing.

Originally Posted by CupCake

With your reasoning I should blindly obey, just because they use the title Pastor, I don’t agree ! We have the right and power to place ourselves under who we wish to obey and let rule over us. I live in this world, yet I decide if I want let it rule me or not!

There is no basis whatsoever for your conclusion. We have no rights! We are dead and our life is hid with Christ in God. Where God sends us is where we must go. Those whom God has placed over us we must obey.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s

What is God's includes obedience to those whom GOD has placed over us. You do understand what "those whom GOD has placed over us" means, don't you? Oh, and did I mention those whom GOD has placed over us?

The response of Jesus when his enemies tried to trap him by asking whether it was right for the Jews, whose nation had been taken over by the Roman Empire, to pay tribute to the Roman emperor. He took a Roman coin that would be used to pay the tribute and asked whose picture was on it; his questioners answered, “Caesar’s.” The reply of Jesus implied that in using Roman coins, the Jews accepted the rule of the Romans, and so the Roman government had the right to tax them, as long as the Jews were not compromising their religious duties. Jesus’ more general point was, “Give to worldly authorities the things that belong to them, and to God what belongs to God.”

This is not relevant because we're not talking about worldly authorities, we're talking about the Church, the kingdom of God, the body and bride of Christ.

My point? I belong to God! Period~

And to rebel against those whom GOD has placed over you is to rebel against God.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Actually, I thought perhaps you had mistyped. That was the reason for my "huh". God has never done anything bad to me.

Then you should be extremely thankful!

Well, then, this whole thread is moot in reference to you in particular. Until you learn to trust God, everything else is for naught.

Actually you are most likely right. Though I must point out, that I do as much as possible submit to God, even without trusting Him. If you believe that is even possible.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Chan

And to rebel against those whom GOD has placed over you is to rebel against God.

I think this is what has always kept me...because my submission to my elders, to my husband, to my parents, to whomever else...IS ultimately submission to God, since He's the one who set up the "chain of command." !!!!!!

Originally Posted by ILG

Okay, what if he is teaching that extrabiblical stuff is biblical and it is really harming the person and they are very confused? What do you do then?

You go to him and discuss it with him.

[Felicity]

Mich.......

God sees your heart and knows your desire and all your issues. There's nothing wrong with searching and questioning and looking for answers. The wisest man who ever lived did that, as well as all of us. Some have more problem in this regard as others and like you yourself said, there are reasons why some people have more problem with trust, etc.

I believe you have a good heart and that you're sincere. If you keep your eyes on Jesus and you follow "hard" after Him and desire to please Him and be obedient to His will and purpose, you'll find your way. He will lead you.

I pray God's very best for you. While you're seeking, and learning and searching ..... maintain personal relationship with Him! The rest will fall into place. I believe that! We go through "times and seasons" in our life. Some are more difficult than others. But I know and can testify as can so many others here that Jesus never fails. It sounds cliche'-ish but it's true, and He will get you to where you need to go and need to be.

We're all special to God and He is a PERSONAL Saviour. We don't all need to be the same. We're not all formed from the same cookie-cutter. Our circumstances in life affect us deeply and profoundly and affect our view of the world and our view of ourselves. Our perspectives are not all the same and that's okay but the main thing is that you maintain personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Just as you submit yourself to your boss, your place of business, to the laws and leadership placed over you in so many ways and so many places, you'll come to the place where you'll place yourself under the leadership of a man who loves God, loves His people and who is sincerely and honestly trying to help people to grow spiritually and be saved.

I believe it!