Who then can be lost?

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

No a fat moron.

I confess I am guilty I do not know how to determine who is a glutton I suspect some to be but what if they have repented and on their 59th diet plan and have had a bypass operation?

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Jesus after teaching was asked "Who then can be saved." Mt.19:25 But on AFF then question is who can be lost. Baptism not essential, tongues a maybe, suck cigarettes and have the HGB, church attendance optional, no tithe paying, pastor is an abomination. Nothing is essential and anything is okay. It is impossible to be lost.

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

By giving grace to others that you view as the rankest of sinners, am I not simply allowing the same bountiful grace to come back upon myself? The scriptures that you (plural) proclaim to be inspired, and given by God, proclaim it so.

Who cares if people smoke and still believe they are saved? Why are you so worried about that "sawdust" in their eye???

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Michlow

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

By giving grace to others that you view as the rankest of sinners, am I not simply allowing the same bountiful grace to come back upon myself? The scriptures that you (plural) proclaim to be inspired, and given by God, proclaim it so.

Who cares if people smoke and still believe they are saved? Why are you so worried about that "sawdust" in their eye???

Mich, I understand the point that you are making & we are not to judge others.
However could it be the reason people speak up on issues such as this is because the motivation is that everyone can go to Heaven?

I don't know anyone on here of a Conservative bent that wishes any to be lost!

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Ron

Mich, I understand the point that you are making & we are not to judge others.
However could it be the reason people speak up on issues such as this is because the motivation is that everyone can go to Heaven?

I don't know anyone on here of a Conservative bent that wishes any to be lost!

My whole point Ron, is that ultimately it is between that person and God. I mean, if someone asks your opinion, then by all means, share your thoughts about it. But so many seem to stick their theology in other peoples' business

I think that if everyone would just "work out their own salvation" and leave their neighbors' alone, the world would be a better place.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Michlow

My whole point Ron, is that ultimately it is between that person and God. I mean, if someone asks your opinion, then by all means, share your thoughts about it. But so many seem to stick their theology in other peoples' business

I think that if everyone would just "work out their own salvation" and leave their neighbors' alone, the world would be a better place.

Well, I agree, it is ultimately between a person and God & there is a fine line between sharing truth & meddling where people don't wish to be meddled.

Even Jesus said that if you are not received well, that we should shake the dust off of our shoes.

[TCSQ]

Originally Posted by He's My Friend

I must confess, I have not thought about a 400 lb evangelist, since I do not know of such a person.

If I did have knowledge of such a person, I would not make it my business to
police his food intake.

Well what about a missionary that weighed over SIX HUNDRED pounds and took four people to help PUSH him into a van? It was amazing to see that he was NEVER ONCE the target of any preaching on the SIN of gluttony but was kind of excused with the remarks like "He just likes a good meal" no the double standard absolutely has to be pointed out as so many people are being held to open ridicule and destruction while others who happen to be "In with the IN crowd" receive a blanket pass for much WORSE deeds then smoking or cutting their hair!!!!!

Oh OH!!!! That reminds me of the Hardliner whose daughter ran off in sin. She came back shortly there after and the remark was made by said Hardliner " Thank God! At least she didn't cut her HAIR!!!!" (said directly to me by aforementioned hardliner)

A little bizarre ,,,,,,don't YOU think???

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Ron

Well, I agree, it is ultimately between a person and God & there is a fine line between sharing truth & meddling where people don't wish to be meddled.

Even Jesus said that if you are not received well, that we should shake the dust off of our shoes.

Ahhh...you hit the nail on the head there Ron. "Sharing Truth". The ultimate problems is that one man's truth is another man's fable.

Ultimately that is why wars are fought. To prove that my truth is better than yours.

I know that sounds relativistic.

But honestly, only God knows the difference between good and evil, but we have been trying to determine it ourselves since the first bite of the infamous fruit.

Now you might argue....you are simply taking what God's word says is good and evil, and sharing that with the world at large. However, in truth, you are simply taking your interpretation of that word.

That is why it is so complex and messy. We try to give simple answers to complicated questions.

Only God, with his bird's eye view. Who see's not just our behavior, but our motivation. Who hears not just our words, but our thoughts. Who see's directly to our heart. Only he is capable of judging.

You might say for example, that a homosexual is a sinner. I, on the other hand, say that only God know's that person's genetics, the balance of their hormones, their life's experiences and the motivations of their heart.

So doesn't it just make sense, to leave it to Him?

[OnTheFritz]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

EATING IS NOT A SIN. SMOKING IS A SIN. Being a glutton is sinful it is the excess that makes it a sin however smoking is a sin if you smoke ONE cigarette.

How so? What makes smoking one cigarette a sin?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Jesus after teaching was asked "Who then can be saved." Mt.19:25 But on AFF then question is who can be lost. Baptism not essential, tongues a maybe, suck cigarettes and have the HGB, church attendance optional, no tithe paying, pastor is an abomination. Nothing is essential and anything is okay. It is impossible to be lost.

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Elder, I am reading the handwritting on the wall, and it says.....

Carlton Pearson was here

St Matt, you seem to take it that Steve Epley's post was made in jest. However, from the crankiness of his tone lately I would tend to take him more seriously.

So again I must ask - who ever said "Nothing is essential...?" And I really haven't ever seen anyone say that any "pastor is an abomination."

Methinks, the good elder has self-esteem issues that he needs some help with.

Perhaps if he were converted to the view that he can never do enough to be saved, and that his salvation rests entirely in the fact that God loves him for who he is, perhaps he would feel better about himself and others around him.

You don't deserve salvation, Mr. Epley. You didn't earn it and you cannot possibly work hard enough to maintain it. Your salvation is in Jesus Christ and the work that Jesus Christ alone can do for you.

It seems that whenever you forget this fact you tend to lash out at those around you with absurd accusations and taunts. Trust in Jesus Christ.

See John 1:29; John 12:32; 2 Corinthians 5:15; Revelation 5:9.

[pelathais]

Because of the nauseating effect that it has on me, smoking that one cigarette in my presence would be a sin. It would be cruel.

However, smoking a single cigarette may not always be "a sin." While growing up I knew of other kids' parents who forced them to smoke a cigarette - just to make certain they wouldn't take up the habit. I don't recommend this, but it seemed to invariably work.

Instead of slowly and carefully "sucking" on cigarettes and developing a tolerance and then a taste for the tobacco, these kids were forced into a sickening and dizzying experience that caused them to swear off tobacco forever. Again, I don't recommend it - but it seemed to be one way that worked to keep kids off of tobacco.

I knew a teacher who did the samething with vanilla extract. She told her kids that "this is what drinking alcohol is like..." and then she would force feed them a couple of tablespoons of vanilla extract. Those kids never drank alcohol.

So, in the endless world of hypotheticals, I suppose we might come up with a situation where smoking a single cigarette not only isn't a sin, but it might be a good thing.

That's the problem with "rules" and works based salvation. Everybody finds a loop hole in the end to do just about whatever they please anyhow. Just look at the sexapades of so many "holiness" minded types.

Far better to have a real relationship with God and to know His real holiness, then to fret over a "to do list" and imagine ways to get around things.