What is a One Stepper?!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Sam, If you want to infer from that passage that the sons of God receive a measure of God's Spirit, the next question would be, when?

That is just one verse. It seems to contrast Jesus, the unique Son of God, with all the other sons/children of God by saying Jesus did not have just a measure of the Holy Spirit but the others (all the rest of us) do.

It is my understanding that the Holy Spirit comes into a person's life at salvation/regeneration. This is an experience spoken of as a second birth, a birth from above, or being born of the Spirit as contrasted with a first birth, a birth from a human parent, or being born of "water." A person who does not have the indwelling Spirit of God (or Jesus living in one's heart) would be someone who has not yet been saved or born again.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Sam

That is just one verse. It seems to contrast Jesus, the unique Son of God, with all the other sons/children of God by saying Jesus did not have just a measure of the Holy Spirit but the others (all the rest of us) do.

It is my understanding that the Holy Spirit comes into a person's life at salvation/regeneration. This is an experience spoken of as a second birth, a birth from above, or being born of the Spirit as contrasted with a first birth, a birth from a human parent, or being born of "water." A person who does not have the indwelling Spirit of God (or Jesus living in one's heart) would be someone who has not yet been saved or born again.

Another question would be, what is meant by a measure?

Paul asked the disciples in Ephesus in Acts 9, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? Other translations say "when ye believed". EIther way it doesn't matter. The question using the word, since, makes sense and fits in with the rest of the story of the book of Acts. If the word, when, is used then the question makes no sense at all and the verses that follow prove this out. So why would Paul ask them, Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed if it was being taught and believed that the Holy Ghost is given (even if by measure) AT faith and repentance?

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

You're essentially saying your position is not based on scriptures but based on your "point of view"... how you view God in your way of thinking.

Doctrine is not based on individual paradigms, or points of view. Doctrines are based on scriptures. If you're being asked to support a doctrinal statement, and you respond by leaning on your "paradigm" instead of the word of God, in essence you're saying you dont have scriptures to back up your doctrinal assertion.


* Homosexuals use their own "paradigm" to ignore the clear teaching of scripture and affirm their lifestyle (because "God is a God of love", and "all love is of God"!!).
* Universalists use their own "paradigm" to explain away hell and tell us it cant be literal, only symbolic, because "the God I know would never do put people in a literal hell".

See... if we allow ourselves to have our doctrine molded by our own individual paradigms/points-of-view. instead of what scripture itself says, we can end up with all kinds of off-base teachings.

In regards to the bolded above, I have to say:

1) A lot of doctrine is based on points-of-view. (examples: interpretation of modesty; interpretation of that which pertaineth to a man). Not everything IS clear cut, obviously, or we wouldn't have so much disagreement.

2) I think it is a far-stretch to compare the 1-step belief to homosexual beliefs.

I KNOW the moment I became one of His (the moment he took me under His wing) and it happened months before I ever spoke in tongues. I "KNOW" because I felt Him come into my heart... And don't even try... you'll never talk me out of it. (One thing you can't take away from a person is their experience.)

Yes, I subsequently was baptized and received the EMPOWERMENT of the Holy Ghost ... but that was a few months later. It was also awesome but in a different way.

I'm wondering... perhaps not everyone's experience is the same. I mean, for me I was sitting in a pew, and felt a definite knocking, a definite drawing. Not once, not twice, but three times. I answered that THIRD KNOCK by getting up and proceeding down the aisle to the altar, and THAT WAS IT JACK! I didn't even make it to the altar before He took over me! So for me, when I stepped out in answer to his call, that was when Jesus came into my heart....I was engulfed in his love and could hardly breathe! It was awesome!

That's how it happened for me.... But I'm wondering... for others, maybe their actual relationship began at the same time they spoke in tongues, so they tie the two together. ???

I guess what I'm getting at is, I've heard a lot of people say that the best day of their lives was when they got the Holy Ghost... Not true for me. I believe I'd label the best day of my life as being the DAY I MET JESUS, which had happened months before I got the Holy Ghost.

[OneAccord]

I guess I would be labeled a "one stepper' in that I believe sins are forgiven when we repent of our sins. I believe new believers (those who have repented) are to be baptized in Jesus Name and that they will receive the Baptism of the Holt Ghost according to Acts 2:4.

I don't know about this receiving a measure of the Spirit at baptism, because I have never heard it put that way. So, I''ll leave that alone.

But, Jesus said this: Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

From the time we first hear the Gospel, the Spirit of God begins to draw us to the Lord. Once we repent, Satan loses his hold on us and the Holy Spirit begins to lead us into all truth. Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Maybe thats what people mean by the term "measure of the Spirit". John wrote: Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:


Receiving Christ. While we may object to the term, the question is what does "as many as received Him" mean? Some say this means receiving the Holy Ghost. I don't know that this is completely accurate. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Here Paul states that those who are led by the Spirit (in preceding verses he is speaking of being FILLED with the Spirit) ARE the Sons of God. John speaks of those who receive Christ are given power to BECOME the sons of God. So, IMO, receiving Christ is done at repentance. And it is then and there that the Holy Spirit begins to lead us into all truth and to becoming the Sons of God which is done when we are filled with the Spirit. The term "measure of the spirit" seems to be used to explain that, when we repent, the Holy Spirit begins to "draw" us to Christ and into all truth.

The leadership of the Spirit begins at repentance (to condition us for the inception of the Holy Ghost) and continues throughout our Christian walk.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

In regards to the bolded above, I have to say:

1) A lot of doctrine is based on points-of-view. (examples: interpretation of modesty; interpretation of that which pertaineth to a man). Not everything IS clear cut, obviously, or we wouldn't have so much disagreement.

2) I think it is a far-stretch to compare the 1-step belief to homosexual beliefs.

I KNOW the moment I became one of His (the moment he took me under His wing) and it happened months before I ever spoke in tongues. I "KNOW" because I felt Him come into my heart... And don't even try... you'll never talk me out of it. (One thing you can't take away from a person is their experience.)

Yes, I subsequently was baptized and received the EMPOWERMENT of the Holy Ghost ... but that was a few months later. It was also awesome but in a different way.

I'm wondering... perhaps not everyone's experience is the same. I mean, for me I was sitting in a pew, and felt a definite knocking, a definite drawing. Not once, not twice, but three times. I answered that THIRD KNOCK by getting up and proceeding down the aisle to the altar, and THAT WAS IT JACK! I didn't even make it to the altar before He took over me! So for me, when I stepped out in answer to his call, that was when Jesus came into my heart....I was engulfed in his love and could hardly breathe! It was awesome!

That's how it happened for me.... But I'm wondering... for others, maybe their actual relationship began at the same time they spoke in tongues, so they tie the two together. ???

I guess what I'm getting at is, I've heard a lot of people say that the best day of their lives was when they got the Holy Ghost... Not true for me. I believe I'd label the best day of my life as being the DAY I MET JESUS, which had happened months before I got the Holy Ghost.

Very good testimony, Fiyastarter! The day I met Him on my Road to Damascus was my greatest day, as well. I remember the night I was first baptized in Jesus Name. I remember the the night I was filled with the Holy Ghost. But that night, I first heard His voice saying "Come unto me... and I will give you rest" was my defining moment. Hearing His voice say "I am Jesus....", feeling His Spirit draw me unto Him, and receiving the Masters touch for the very first time... that experience outshines them all!

And Paul's Damascus Road experience must have been his defining moment as well. For when he relates his salvation experience, he barely mentions water baptism (if he does at all), and he hardly mentions recieving the Holy Ghost. But, on more than one occasion, he related his experience on the Damascus Road. What did the two men say when they met the Lord on another road? "Did not our hearts burn within us?"

okay okay okay

i see my post of mega confusion to myself has brought up a lot of new posts! amazing! it makes me feel special. haha

in any case, i still don't think i'm fully understanding it.. so a one stepper is someone who belives that you can be saved just by repenting? that's what i'm getting.

so, one stepper is a bad thing? because you have to repent and be baptized and filled with the holy ghost. and it takes more than repentance to enter the house of god, you have to be thirsty for him and not take him for granted; conserve the pentecostal heritage and doctrine; seperation from the world; doing what god is asking of us, even if it means we don't want to do something; obeying your pastor; making your life about him, not about you; etc.

so then i would say that i'm not a one stepper, because i don't believe that repentance is the only way to get to heaven??

this is so confusing

thanks for everyone's input though, it's really awesome

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by stiney_<3

okay okay okay

i see my post of mega confusion to myself has brought up a lot of new posts! amazing! it makes me feel special. haha

in any case, i still don't think i'm fully understanding it.. so a one stepper is someone who belives that you can be saved just by repenting? that's what i'm getting.

so, one stepper is a bad thing? because you have to repent and be baptized and filled with the holy ghost. and it takes more than repentance to enter the house of god, you have to be thirsty for him and not take him for granted; conserve the pentecostal heritage and doctrine; seperation from the world; doing what god is asking of us, even if it means we don't want to do something; obeying your pastor; making your life about him, not about you; etc.

so then i would say that i'm not a one stepper, because i don't believe that repentance is the only way to get to heaven??

this is so confusing

thanks for everyone's input though, it's really awesome

Stick with my definintions. Although I am fully Water/Spirit, my definitions for what a "One Stepper" is, is dead right, and even One steppers will agree...


Now is it a bad thing? well that is a matter of opinion. One Steppers think it is a good thing. there are a couple around here who would lable you and I heritics. we have others here who would say they have good fellowship with W/S people.

personally I live by the UPCI merger agreement of 1945. That is we are close enough to work together without contending for our own view to the point that it causes strife with the bretheren.

Now, my position is based on the understanding of what a PCI guy WAS at the merger, not what so many today have decided they were.

Fact is, the old One Steppers beleive that you were saved at repentence but saved people would recieve the HG and be baptized.

we have some today that think if you pass a church on the highway your saved. these I consider as lost as two boys kissing.

Originally Posted by Ferd

Stick with my definintions. Although I am fully Water/Spirit, my definitions for what a "One Stepper" is, is dead right, and even One steppers will agree...


Now is it a bad thing? well that is a matter of opinion. One Steppers think it is a good thing. there are a couple around here who would lable you and I heritics. we have others here who would say they have good fellowship with W/S people.

personally I live by the UPCI merger agreement of 1945. That is we are close enough to work together without contending for our own view to the point that it causes strife with the bretheren.

Now, my position is based on the understanding of what a PCI guy WAS at the merger, not what so many today have decided they were.

Fact is, the old One Steppers beleive that you were saved at repentence but saved people would recieve the HG and be baptized.

we have some today that think if you pass a church on the highway your saved. these I consider as lost as two boys kissing.

amen, amen !!

i have a few people at school that believe that "for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" (not exact text, i'm to lazy to go get it and i really don't have that one memorized....)

so, a one stepper doesn't believe you NEED the holy ghost to be saved, but that you just need to repent and then you'll just automaticly eventually receive the baptizm of the holy ghost?

ah. i'll just stick to what i believe, and what pastor bow says... this stepper stuff is confusing

[TRFrance]

***

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

TRF....You never addressed my response to your post. I would assume you did not see it. So here you are again.

I saw it but didnt address it because
1.. It didn't seem like a question was being asked. and
2... I've responded to those points numerous times in the past when it's been brought up by others on other threads multiple times.

Lord knows, I’ll probably be asked again. I find myself answering the same questions over and over, and it rarely seems to really make much of a difference, so it gets tiresome after a while. At the end of the day, it seems like people will believe what they want to anyway. Then later, someone comes on and asks me the same question I responded to 20 posts earlier... and on it goes.

Anyway, here’s my response, JT ...

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I do not think this answers the question TRF. I think that this is the response to the Message of Jesus the Christ/Messiah. But first our initial response is to believe HE is. I think that in the NT it is stated many times to believe on Him and one is saved and other variations of that. Infact, in Acts 2:21 says, "But everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." This can not be talking about in baptism either cause by that time the baptism under Jesus had not been introduced into the equation of the conversation or the conversion. IMO

Yes, our initial response is to believe. No argument there. Believing leads to salvation, but is not in itself salvation.

Yes, once cannot be saved without believing. Believing is obviously then the necessary first step. But again, believing is never salvation in itself.

You quoted: "Believe on the Lord and you shall be saved" (Acts 16:31)... if one were to take that verse by itself, without balancing it in proper NT context, one might say believing is all that's needed but repentance is not necessary for salvation! Would you agree with that? Somehow, I think not. Jesus already said "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Lk 13:3).

You also quoted: "Whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Acts 2:21). Same thing. Let me use a preposterous example here for a sec; imagine... if one were to use that verse as their end-all-be-all "proof text" of salvation, they might try to simply say that literally calling Jesus' name is all we have to do to be saved. (...yes, an absurd thought, but stay with me here for a sec…) Why? Because the verse plainly says "whosovever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved". So if "the name of the Lord" is Jesus... is one saved just by "calling the name of Jesus", and nothing more!? Of course not. That would be taking the verse out of proper New Testament context. Same with all those verses that say believe and you’re saved. 1-steppers ignore the larger context of NT scripture that shows us that more is required than just taking that first step of believing.

If you want to use Acts 2:21 as proof of what it takes to be saved… then why ignore Mark 16 which also says “he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”? (…even though I’m not saying I believe believing and baptism provide salvation in themselves) Why just stop at verses that say “believe” or “believe and call on the Lord”?

Fact is, many 1-steppers ignore the verses that let us know that one is not saved without having the Spirit. They make having the Holy Ghost optional… OR they rely on the spurious “measure of the spirit” doctrine to say that people automatically get “a measure” of the Holy Ghost upon repentance. That leads to your next post….

[quote=JTULLOCK;443496]TRF....You never addressed my response to your post. I would assume you did not see it. So here you are again. Personally, I feel that everyone gets a measure of the spirit when the are repent/saved.

I do believe one is saved at genuine repentance.

Since we know that with out the spirit no one will see Him,

believing that one is saved at repentance this verse Acts 2:21 would confirm the measure of spirit at repentance-for me at least. This is because all that calls on Him will be saved and one has to have the spirit to be see Him-thus it is confirmed.[/quote]
You feel that everyone gets a measure of the spirit when they repent? Fine. Feel free to show us the scriptures you base that on. I've asked repeatedly for scriptures on that, and usually get none (except for some who offer John 20;22, which can be easily shown to be inapplicable and invalid).

The kind of argument you're using is known as "circular reasoning". In circular reasoning a person starts out with a certain premise or statement and then goes out to prove it by using either
1... the statement itself or
2... a "fact" that would rely on the statement that is to be proven.
Any such “proof” based on that kind of reasoning is simply not valid.

Lets look at the case you’re making here. Basically:

*You started with the premise that repentance is sufficient for salvation. (...which I disagree with, and you've never proven. But now you wish to support this premise. However, as we'll see, your argument breaks down since you end up having to go back to this very premise in order to prove it's true!)

*Then you acknowledge that a person can’t see God without the Holy Ghost (I agree. Scripture is clear on that...such as Rom 8:9)

*But then you also say you believe a person receives "a measure of the spirit" when they repent. But how do you prove/ confirm that?? Well, you say this: "believing that one is saved at repentance this verse Acts 2:21 would confirm the measure of spirit at repentance-for me at least."

Huh? So (while you're acknowledging that one must have the Spirit in them to be saved) you say the "measure of the Spirit" theory is proved to you by the fact that you already believe they're saved at repentance??

Take a close look at what you’re saying here.
To make it crystal clear, this is what your argument boils down to:

* I believe salvation is at repentance
* I believe salvation requires the Holy Spirit, since I know we can't see God without it.
* So, since I believe salvation is at repentance, then that means we must get at least “a measure of the spirit” at repentance.
* Thus, my theory that one receives a measure of the spirit at repentance is confirmed by the fact that I already believe salvation is at repentance."

No offense, JT, but you’re using "backward logic" here. In essence, your original premise is 'confirmed' to you by the fact that you're already inclined to believe it.

Then in your final statement there is more of the same:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This is because all that calls on Him will be saved and one has to have the spirit to be see Him-thus it is confirmed.

Sorry, my sister. Maybe it’s confirmed to you in your own mind because you want it to be. But you really haven’t confirmed anything with scripture.

(And what about the believers in Acts 8 who repented, and were baptized, but did not get the Holy Spirit some time afterward? Clearly they didn't receive a measure of the Spirit since the Acts 8 16 says

"the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus."

****************
Anyway, lets get to the root of the issue here, and one of the biggest holes in the 1-stepper argument...

I'd ask you the same question that I and others have asked around here. Please demonstrate to us from scripture that one receives a measure of the Spirit before the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That’s all.

The fact is, it can not be proven scripturally, because there is no New Testament record of anyone in the church age receiving a "measure of the spirit" of God before the baptism of the Spirit.

Anyway...be blessed.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Anyway, lets get to the root of the issue here, and one of the biggest holes in the 1-stepper argument...

I'd ask you the same question that I and others have asked around here. Please demonstrate to us from scripture that one receives a measure of the Spirit before the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That’s all. [/FONT]

The fact is, it can not be proven scripturally, because there is no New Testament record of anyone in the church age receiving a "measure of the spirit" of God before the baptism of the Spirit.

Anyway...be blessed.

I demonstrated to you FROM EXPERIENCE.

If that were'nt His Spirit that engulfed me that day I "took that walk down the aisle" then there is a VERY GOOD IMPOSTER lurking!!! LOL!

And NO I didn't speak in tongues that day.

Let me ask YOU something...

If someone hadn't TOLD you that you would speak in tongues when you were filled with the Holy Ghost, IF you didn't know to EXPECT it...
Do you think you would have broken out in tongues? And IF the answer to this question is "YES it would have automatically come out", then why is there so much "coaxing" at Pentecostal altars to "speak it out, speak it out, say it over and over, see the tie, tie the tie" blah blah blah. Why do altar workers encourage people to "TRY" to talk in tongues??? To me, this isn't even genuine and certainly is unnecessary, if it is an AUTOMATIC response to receiving the Spirit.