Why do non UPC think they know what is best for UPC? Is that not the very spiritual arrogance the same accuses of UPC?
Obviously I have no way of knowing Scotty's heart, I'm even having problems gauging how much he is jesting here; but if there is no jest intended at all then this post itself might be regarded as displaying the very spiritual arrogance the same accuses of UPC?
For myself, I am a non UPC having resigned from the UPC ministry a decade ago. And though I have proven myself to qualify for reinstatement a few years back, I really only did that because of the spiritual arrogance of a UPC preacher who made false allegations against me from the pulpit in front of my children.
I am also non UPC because over the course of the last few years I have also concluded that I cannot really adhere to the changes that have been made in the Fundamental Doctrine and the Articles of Faith. I guess that to an outsider I would be considered an "ultra-conservative" because of my resistance to many of the changes; but in the upside-down world of the UPC I am something else.
Why do I think that my course of action would be "best" for the UPC and why am I "trying to help?" Scotty suggests that it is spiritual arrogance, but I'll let you judge.
My wife and children attend a UPC church as do I when my work schedule allows. In preparing my taxes I have financial statements verifying support to two different UPC congregations; and for our means, it's pretty large support.
I have been approached by UPC pastors (and non-UPC) in the area on many occasions recently to provide research and sermon preparation help. Because of my frequent absenses from district events due to work and health related issues, some have even invited me to join their congregations thinking that I may not even be attending anywhere. I got an email yesterday from a leader in a nearby UPC church inviting me again to attend services with them.
Though I am non UPC, many of the UPC people who know me seem to like my help.
I really don't know of anyone who is "non UPC" and "trying to help" who has displayed the "spiritual arrogance" that at least appears to reside in the post above. Instead this seems to represent some sort of closed off and insular view of the fellowship that won't help at all.
I thought the AMF was formed after Bro. Murray Burr did not get elected to the office of GS so he and others left.
I'm not an "expert" on that particular time, but I think you are correct about Murray Burr and his lost election. However there were several other complicating factors. Timlan touches on some of that here. The folllowing posts are good too.
The one preacher that I knew myself who had left the UPC for the AMF did so because he was being dealt with in a very unethical and mean spirited fashion by his Superintendent.
I haven't seen any of the WWPF guys having their church property ownership threatened like some of the AMF cases. Until Monday the UPC has had a very hands off policy toward the WWPF ministers. And now, the only action that has been taken has been for them to say "choose."
Excellent points, though the UPC hasn't "thrown out the ultra-cons." Just like Johnny King is reported to have done, the ultra-cons will all do some sort of AMF style card burning and walk out of the meeting. Though the AMF might be an example of ultra-cons who were shown the door.
The WWPF has been carefully orchastrating their own departure but have tried all along to make it appear that they were being forced out.
Pelathais,
I greatly enjoy interacting with you from time to time here on AFF, and even though I disagree from time to time with some of your ideology, we may not be that far apart in our core beliefs.
Having said that I do take issue with the above post. This post promotes the erroneous idea that Bro. King left the GB meeting in some kind of "victim" mentality or display. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Bro. King has reported that the GB made their decision after much prayer and healthy discussion. There was no mean spirit displayed by either side. (the rest of this is reported by others) After the GB made their final decision on the matter by way of voting, Bro. King addressed the GB with all humility, and after his subsequent resignation, the GB gathered around him and all of them prayed for him. It was a very amicable and noble departure, not one hewn with animosity and innuendo.
There are no card burning meetings planned, and if someone even tried such a thing, they would be immediately expelled from the WPF roster as that kind of attitude and spirit is totally against what the WPF stands for. JMHO
Pelathais,
I greatly enjoy interacting with you from time to time here on AFF, and even though I disagree from time to time with some of your ideology, we may not be that far apart in our core beliefs.
Having said that I do take issue with the above post. This post promotes the erroneous idea that Bro. King left the GB meeting in some kind of "victim" mentality or display. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Bro. King has reported that the GB made their decision after much prayer and healthy discussion. There was no mean spirit displayed by either side. (the rest of this is reported by others) After the GB made their final decision on the matter by way of voting, Bro. King addressed the GB with all humility, and after his subsequent resignation, the GB gathered around him and all of them prayed for him. It was a very amicable and noble departure, not one hewn with animosity and innuendo.
There are no card burning meetings planned, and if someone even tried such a thing, they would be immediately expelled from the WPF roster as that kind of attitude and spirit is totally against what the WPF stands for. JMHO
Thank you Bishoph. I obviously wasn't there and only have the usual forum gossip and reports to go on until a trusted source like yourself paints a clearer picture.
And as you appear to be stating, no one was "thrown out" either.
I'm not an "expert" on that particular time, but I think you are correct about Murray Burr and his lost election. However there were several other complicating factors. Timlan touches on some of that here. The folllowing posts are good too.
The one preacher that I knew myself who had left the UPC for the AMF did so because he was being dealt with in a very unethical and mean spirited fashion by his Superintendent.
I haven't seen any of the WWPF guys having their church property ownership threatened like some of the AMF cases. Until Monday the UPC has had a very hands off policy toward the WWPF ministers. And now, the only action that has been taken has been for them to say "choose."
My father expressed much sadness of the forming of the AMF and the men that left the UPC. He chose to stay though there was a time when he came very close to leaving.
__________________ "I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it."
Obviously I have no way of knowing Scotty's heart, I'm even having problems gauging how much he is jesting here; but if there is no jest intended at all then this post itself might be regarded as displaying the very spiritual arrogance the same accuses of UPC?
For myself, I am a non UPC having resigned from the UPC ministry a decade ago. And though I have proven myself to qualify for reinstatement a few years back, I really only did that because of the spiritual arrogance of a UPC preacher who made false allegations against me from the pulpit in front of my children.
I am also non UPC because over the course of the last few years I have also concluded that I cannot really adhere to the changes that have been made in the Fundamental Doctrine and the Articles of Faith. I guess that to an outsider I would be considered an "ultra-conservative" because of my resistance to many of the changes; but in the upside-down world of the UPC I am something else.
Why do I think that my course of action would be "best" for the UPC and why am I "trying to help?" Scotty suggests that it is spiritual arrogance, but I'll let you judge.
My wife and children attend a UPC church as do I when my work schedule allows. In preparing my taxes I have financial statements verifying support to two different UPC congregations; and for our means, it's pretty large support.
I have been approached by UPC pastors (and non-UPC) in the area on many occasions recently to provide research and sermon preparation help. Because of my frequent absenses from district events due to work and health related issues, some have even invited me to join their congregations thinking that I may not even be attending anywhere. I got an email yesterday from a leader in a nearby UPC church inviting me again to attend services with them.
Though I am non UPC, many of the UPC people who know me seem to like my help.
I really don't know of anyone who is "non UPC" and "trying to help" who has displayed the "spiritual arrogance" that at least appears to reside in the post above. Instead this seems to represent some sort of closed off and insular view of the fellowship that won't help at all.
Pelathais is looking our way!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Obviously I have no way of knowing Scotty's heart, I'm even having problems gauging how much he is jesting here; but if there is no jest intended at all then this post itself might be regarded as displaying the very spiritual arrogance the same accuses of UPC?
For myself, I am a non UPC having resigned from the UPC ministry a decade ago. And though I have proven myself to qualify for reinstatement a few years back, I really only did that because of the spiritual arrogance of a UPC preacher who made false allegations against me from the pulpit in front of my children.
I am also non UPC because over the course of the last few years I have also concluded that I cannot really adhere to the changes that have been made in the Fundamental Doctrine and the Articles of Faith. I guess that to an outsider I would be considered an "ultra-conservative" because of my resistance to many of the changes; but in the upside-down world of the UPC I am something else.
Why do I think that my course of action would be "best" for the UPC and why am I "trying to help?" Scotty suggests that it is spiritual arrogance, but I'll let you judge.
My wife and children attend a UPC church as do I when my work schedule allows. In preparing my taxes I have financial statements verifying support to two different UPC congregations; and for our means, it's pretty large support.
I have been approached by UPC pastors (and non-UPC) in the area on many occasions recently to provide research and sermon preparation help. Because of my frequent absenses from district events due to work and health related issues, some have even invited me to join their congregations thinking that I may not even be attending anywhere. I got an email yesterday from a leader in a nearby UPC church inviting me again to attend services with them.
Though I am non UPC, many of the UPC people who know me seem to like my help.
I really don't know of anyone who is "non UPC" and "trying to help" who has displayed the "spiritual arrogance" that at least appears to reside in the post above. Instead this seems to represent some sort of closed off and insular view of the fellowship that won't help at all.
I can't speak for Scotty... he likes to fun.. no idea. He likely wasn't aiming at you... and I know when I said "yes " I wasn't... since I don't know anything about you. (well, I do now!!)
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
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