Is sex before marrage a sin if you marry the person?

[Sister Alvear]

The guilty should take a lesson from David and be wise enough to listen to the prophet...

[Sister Alvear]

I have seen people try to cover their sin by trying to do something super but sin will come back and stare you in the face...You must make right every thought, every action, every attitude.
I have known people to be disrespectful to their leaders and try to cover their sins and attitudes with some great thing the Lord is doing but we that have been in the gospel work KNOW he that coveth his sin shall not prosper. Many times people sin and become haughty and proud but the fall is great...I still hear in my ears the cry., How the mighty are fallen..."
One of the best workers we ever had fell into a sin...I wanted so much for him and the sister he sinned with to be saved. I fasted and prayed. But when I would go talk to them they would always through something in my face to justify their sin...in time our people prayed they would leave...they were so proud...I was the only one that wept for I knew they would never make it back unless something drastic happened...Others rejoiced when they left...because they turned people against them for they were too proud to change. Up to today I still keep in contact with them and weep that pride was greater than humility...they both could have done such a work for God...much more talented than I have ever been...Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall...
If you find yourself in sexual sins repent...humble yourself...that is AGAINST human nature. YOU must change. Accept the man of God and his advice no matter how bad it hurts you to humble down...seek to become as David.

[Trouvere]

The S word is a sin if you do it without the blessing of God.Should you mess up then you still have to repent even if you do get married to that person.You still sinned against the Lord by fornication.

[Rhoni]

Sister Alvear,

The words you have written in this thread are true and wise. I do think there are wonderful men and women of God who rejoice when a person taken in a sin is restored and once again made a vessel of honor to be useful in the kingdom.

The shame is in those men and women of God who want the person who sinned to be forever marked and discredited. I think that those type of people have been harshly dealt with or have never had to be forgiven. I do feel sorry for people like that.

We are all the family of God and should rejoice when our brother or sister comes home. Of course there is one in every family who is jealous and resentful because they think they should receive more honor and more blessing for never having sinned/left.

Thank-you for these valuable insights Sis. Alvear.

Love & Prayers, Sis. Rhonda

[Sister Alvear]

I am writing something to put here in a little while. But when it all boils down to recovery...the issue is repentance not covering up and blaming others. The person must as David come to realize they have sinned...
David paid a high price for his sin but he was forgiven. He remained king but even so it cost him dearly. The gifts and the callings are always there. I once talked to a backslide preacher that told me that he still thought of sermon titles and scriptures as he sat at a bar drinking...so sad...

Since we're in the virtual world, how about applying all said arguments to this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18139090/.

[Sister Alvear]

Young women involved in sexual immorality bear heavy burdens, with significantly higher depression, poverty, and other problems, but the women are not the only ones harmed. The men also degrade the quality of their lives, and one easily measured correlation is that men involved in immorality tend to have a significantly increased risk of suicide. This finding is documented in a related study from the Heritage Foundation, "Sexually Active Teenagers Are More Likely to Be Depressed," by Robert E. Rector, Kirk A. Johnson, Ph.D., and Lauren R. Noyes, June 3, 2002, (Center for Data Analysis Report #03-04, available at http://www.heritage.org/Research/Family/cda0304.cfm, a study that draws upon data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Adolescent Health, 1996, from a nationwide survey designed to examine the health-related behaviors of 6,500 representative adolescents in middle school and high school across the nation, funded by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD) and 17 other federal agencies.
The data show that sexually active teenage boys were over 8 times more likely to attempt suicide that those who were not sexually active. (Sexually active young women were nearly 3 times as likely to attempt suicide.) The study also highlights the increased depression of those who were engaged in immorality, and documents that the majority of sexually active teens wish they had waited longer. Immorality, regret, and depression are linked. And this is in addition to the tragedy of sexually transmitted disease (affecting about one-fourth of America's sexually active teens) and teenage pregnancy.

But there are others who suffer from our lax standards on marriage and sexuality. Children of parents who are lax about moral standards often pay a heavy price
(copied)

[Sister Alvear]

Lack of self-control, especially in the area of morality, is so often at the heart of broken families and wretched relationships.

[Sister Alvear]

(copied from notes from NLT Bible)
Notes from Leviticus 5:5
The entire system of sacrifices could not help a sinner unless he brought his offering with an attitude of repentance and a willingness to confess sin. Today, because of Christ's death on the cross, we do not have to sacrifice animals. But it is still vital to confess sin, because genuine confession shows realization of sin, awareness of God's holiness, humility before God, and willingness to turn from this sin (Psalm 51:16, 17). Even Jesus' death will be of little value to us if we do not repent and follow him. It is like a vaccine for a dangerous disease--it won't help unless it enters the bloodstream.

Notes from 2 Samuel 12:14
David confessed and repented of his sin (12:13), but God's judgment was that his child would die. The consequences of David's sin were irreversible. Sometimes an apology isn't enough. When God forgives us and restores our relationship with him, he doesn't eliminate all the consequences of our wrongdoing. We may be tempted to say, "If this is wrong, I can always apologize to God," but we must remember that we may set into motion events with irreversible consequences.

Why did this child have to die? This was not a judgment on the child for being conceived out of wedlock, but a judgment on David for his sin. David and Bathsheba deserved to die, but God spared their lives and took the child instead. God still had work for David to do in building the kingdom. The child's death was a horrible punishment for David and Bathsheba to bear.
It is also possible that had the child lived, God's name would have been dishonored among Israel's pagan neighbors. What would they have thought of a God who rewards murder and adultery by giving a king a new heir? A baby's death is tragic, but despising God brings death to entire nations. While God readily forgave David's sin, he did not negate all its consequences.

Notes from Matthew 3:1, 2
Almost 30 years had passed since the events of chapter 2. Here John the Baptist burst onto the scene. His theme was "Repent of your sins." The people needed to repent--make a 180-degree turn--from the kind of self-centeredness that leads to wrong actions, such as lying, cheating, stealing, gossiping, taking revenge, abusing, and indulging in sexual immorality. A person who turns from sin stops rebelling and begins following God's way of living prescribed in his Word. The first step in turning to God is to admit your sin, as John urged. Then God will receive you and help you live the way he wants. Remember that only God can get rid of sin. He doesn't expect us to clean up our life before we come to him.

Notes from 1 John 1:9
Confession is supposed to free us to enjoy fellowship with Christ. It should ease our consciences and lighten our cares. But some Christians do not understand how it works. They feel so guilty that they confess the same sins over and over; then they wonder if they might have forgotten something. Other Christians believe that God forgives them when they confess, but if they died with unconfessed sins, they would be forever lost. These Christians do not understand that God wants to forgive us. He allowed his beloved Son to die just so he could offer us pardon. When we come to Christ, he forgives all the sins we have committed or will ever commit. We don't need to confess the sins of the past all over again, and we don't need to fear that God will reject us if we don't keep our slate perfectly clean. Of course we should continue to confess our sins, but not because failure to do so will make us lose our salvation. Our relationship with Christ is secure. Instead, we should confess so that we can enjoy maximum fellowship and joy with him.

True confession also involves a commitment not to continue in sin. We wouldn't be genuinely confessing our sins to God if we planned to commit them again and just wanted temporary forgiveness. We should also pray for strength to defeat temptation the next time we face it.

If God has forgiven us for our sins because of Christ's death, why must we confess our sins? In admitting our sins and receiving Christ's cleansing, we are (1) agreeing with God that our sin truly is sin and that we are willing to turn from it, (2) ensuring that we don't conceal our sins from him and consequently from ourselves, and (3) recognizing our tendency to sin and relying on his power to overcome it.

[Sister Alvear]

"SIN PRODUCES DEATH"

“Thus saith the LORD, behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. Howbeit, because by this deed thou has given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah’s wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth. And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them. And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead? But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead. Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the LORD, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat. Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou has done? Thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. And he said, while the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” (2nd Sam 12:11-23)

No sin gets by the Lord unnoticed. No matter how small or great, every act of disobedience is noted by the Lord God. With every opportunity given to man/woman to fall into the temptation to sin, there will ALWAYS without a doubt, simultaneously be given a way of escape thus we are without excuse. It will be the responsibility of each individual to accept that way of escape, or succumb to the temptation and give into sin. Be consciously aware, that before you surrender to the “will of the flesh”, and give in to the lust thereof, ultimately “Sin Produces Death”. A continual, willful act of disobedience will lead to death. Be it a spiritual or physical death as described here in the book of 2nd Samuel regarding the son of David, the end results will be the same…..death! For the wages of sin, IS death! But the gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

King David was a man chosen and called by God to rule his people Israel. He was a man whose heart was after the Lord God, but at times did succumb to the lust of his flesh as such in the case of Bathsheba. He had beheld the beauty of another man’s wife and desired her and surrendered to an adulterous relationship thereby producing a son. It was KNOWN to David that Bathsheba was a “married” woman, thus he was without excuse. When he inquired about her, in the 11th chapter of 2nd Samuel, it was told to him Bathsheba was the daughter of Eliam, and the WIFE of Uriah. The way of escape was laid before him and he was given ample time to turn away from the temptation to sin as he’d yet to physically meet Bathsheba but saw her from a distance. At the moment he HEARD she was a married woman, he should have rejected the lust of his flesh, however instead he sent messengers to bring her to him, and committed before the presence of the Lord, the act of adultery. At that point, David had already broken two commandments and sinned against the Lord. For the Lord gave commandment through Moses “Thou shalt not covet thou neighbors wife….” And David broke this commandment through his desire and lust for Bathsheba. It is also written: “Thou shalt not commit adultery” and again, David broke this commandment by allowing himself to become involved in an adulterous relationship. However he went further in sin and broke thus another commandment for it is written: “Thou shalt not murder” and yet David had Bathsheba’s Husband Uriah murdered for the selfish reason that he may have Bathsheba as his wife. He may not have been the one who physically murdered Uriah, but he devised the whole plan, and conspired to have Uriah murdered. Thus he was GUILTY of the sin itself.

After the death of Uriah, David took Bathsheba as his wife and she bore him a son. One would think King David’s heart would be so filled with Godly sorrow that he would have instantly repented of this sin, however he did not repent until the sin was made known to him through the words of the Prophet Nathan. After his confession and TRUE repentance, the Lord did forgive David of this sin. But, despite his fasting and prayer for his sick son, David paid the ultimate price and lost his son to death because of his disobedience.

Therefore, there is NO sin that goes unnoticed before the Lord. We may continue in sin and BELIEVE that it has gone unnoticed and unpunished, however there WILL come a day when those who continue sinning against the Lord shall pay the ultimate price, for “Sin Produces Death”. For this reason already there are many within the Body of Christ that feel distant from the Lord. They go through the “religious motions”, but have NO spiritual connection and/or relationship with Him for sin has separated them from His presence! Many also have the foolish notion as to think their sins are not “so bad”, after all unlike David they’ve not murdered nor have they committed adultery. But those who hate their brother or sister, and speak all manner of evil against them, YOU are a MURDERER at HEART! Those who lust after a woman or man, YOU are an ADULTERY at HEART! Those whose hearts are filled with bitterness, jealousy, anger, resentment, strife, division and the like, YOU have NOT the SPIRIT of THE LORD dwelling on the inside of you! You are driven and governed by YOUR FLESH and to surrender to the flesh leads to DEATH, just as to surrender to the SPIRIT leads to LIFE!

To the Church I say this day…WE MUST REPENT! We must REMOVE all manner of sin and evil from among us and surrender COMPLETELY our hearts back to the Lord thus allowing the Holy Spirit to begin and complete a good work in us! For we cannot continue in ANY manner of sin, and expect the blessings and favor of the Lord God nor can we foolishly think our sins are hidden from the Lord. He’s given us much space, much time to repent and we daily test his patience by saying within ourselves “tomorrow!” “I shall turn away from this evil….tomorrow, I’ll start all over….tomorrow” But your tomorrow may NEVER come. This day, this moment is ALL you have, thus NOW is the time for TRUE REPENTANCE! Not tomorrow….RIGHT NOW! How long will we tempt the Lord to wrath with our blatant and willful sins? Judgement shall begin with his own, “The Church”! We shall not escape his wrath, in fact our punishment would be worse for we KNEW the truth and SURRENDERED to a lie! We rejected the way of escape, and succumbed to the lust and evil temptations of our flesh. We would rather have one moment of earthly pleasure than an eternity of spiritual oneness with the Lord. If you say this is not so, then why CHOOSE that one moment of earthly pleasure? Why not take that way of escape? To us ALL I say REPENT! The time is short, the Lord will not hold back his wrath much longer for with disobedience, comes punishment! Therefore the Lord said: “Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.” (Is 1:16-17)

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, IS NOT of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever! (1st John 2:15-17)

I love you all so very much. Have a blessed week in the Lord and remember: Whatever we do, do ALL for the GLORY of GOD, who ALONE is worthy of the GLORY and the PRAISE!

May the peace of the Lord be with you today and always…….

Khandielese
Daughter & Servant
of the Lord God