Cults

[shazeep]

and, to be fair, you figured it out, and others figure it out, so he should be able to figure it out. He is in the biz, after all. Bottom line, that was a horrible pov to bring to a new believer. And, wadr, i guess by association any pastor who feels this way, and is reading this; witness the fruit of doctrine over Grace.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by shazeep

and, to be fair, you figured it out, and others figure it out, so he should be able to figure it out. He is in the biz, after all. Bottom line, that was a horrible pov to bring to a new believer. And, wadr, i guess by association any pastor who feels this way, and is reading this; witness the fruit of doctrine over Grace.

My husband and I pastored for 10 years and I got to the point that I could not in good conscience ask anybody to come and get involved. And so, the organization we loved and gave our lives to, we left. It was the right thing for us to do and although I have missed some aspects I have never felt it was the wrong choice.

[shazeep]

well, i hope it was a doorway, rather than a wall...

[ILG]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i hope it was a doorway, rather than a wall...

Definitely.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Thank you for your broad generalizations.

When in Rome

Do you agree that water/Spirit doctrine is the predominant soteriology among Oneness Pentecostals?

Yes but not the only

I assert, based upon years of interaction with you, that you believe that there is a 50/50 split between 3 step and 1 step believers within Oneness Pentecostalism.

You haven't really interacted with me. You usually have some sort of distorted sense of what I said or believe and go raving mad

That is definitely what your posts imply.

Show me where I IMPLY a 50/50 split.

But it's just not true.

no kidding

My original posts are solid. Water/Spirit Oneness Pentecostals not only condemn Trinitarians, they also condemn other Oneness Pentecostals based upon soteriology and "holiness standards."

and MY original post was true too. Trinitarians condemn all non-trinitarians to hell. Catholics often condemn Protestants. Protestants condemn Catholics. They all condemn Jews and Muslims.

You mention Atheists, Muslims, etc. That's another issue entirely. My original posts were focused on the way Christians treat other Christians.

No it's not and Im not sure I mentioned Atheists. But it's still the same. Every Christian system condemns someone to hell except Universalists. If your concern is being part of a group that condemns others to hell, become a Universalists or an atheists or maybe even a pagan.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Wow, you possess a great super-power. You know what every OP feels?

THAT is laughable.

Notice you didn't read what I posted but read it through your usual slanted view of others...I never said EVERY OP


I said every OP I know. Im talking about Personally.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Why do you do this? It's a really bad habit.

You assign anger, motives, purpose, etc.

Have you ever considered the way you communicate? You should know that you are very dismissive, angry and arrogant.

You own a forum, a place to exchange ideas and experiences, but become upset when people do so.

Silly, really.

Actually I am not the only one. Many others here have observed the angry fist shaking and vitriol from people who leave the UPC. Not everyone has that experience. That was my point.

I know people that left the UPC. They are happy. They were happy when in the UPC too. They had a change of views and decided to leave. They never go to forums and spew vitriol at the UPC.

When we talk they never rail on and on about the UPC....

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ILG

I didn't say there was no fault in the preacher. I said I am not blaming him. He was teaching what he truly believed. But I believe the doctrine is incorrect.

Ok, but maybe there was some fault in the preacher. I've heard some stuff that makes me cringe.

I think the issue isn't if the doctrine was incorrect, clearly you've believe that and said so before. Im more about your claims about it being dangerous and led you to feel fear and questioning your salvation.

I don't believe that is an experience everyone feels...shouldn't they if it's really about the doctrine?

[shazeep]

You might think so, but sheep are led; many believers may, and do, just recuse themselves spiritually from doctrine and its endless debates from jump street. I know many awesome, lifelong Pentecostals--and Muslims--who struck me as being above all that, even when i was completely ignorant. They manage to find the Spirit, and follow that over the letter. Your doctrine has not improved one iota if you still feel condemnation for some other doctrine, imo.

I long held this anger at my Christian roots, for what i perceived as a willful misleading and deception; but this is a selfish pov in the end. I see all the change in the (Pent, and other) church now less as a harbinger of doom, and more as a good sign--wheat comes up with tares, and it is folly to think a better doctrine might change this. If pastors who initially all hold to some specific doctrine are tending to abandon it at some point, then wasn't it the doctrine that led the way?

Causing a new believer to doubt their salvation seems horrible; but things tend to work together for good. And while this might sound like a back-handed compliment to that pastor--whose pov has very likely altered in the intervening years--how much more grief might some poor acolyte of mine have to go through, i wonder? Maybe worse grief!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Ok, but maybe there was some fault in the preacher. I've heard some stuff that makes me cringe.

I think the issue isn't if the doctrine was incorrect, clearly you've believe that and said so before. Im more about your claims about it being dangerous and led you to feel fear and questioning your salvation.

I don't believe that is an experience everyone feels...shouldn't they if it's really about the doctrine?

Yes. I think people do to more and lesser degrees. All people are different. These experiences didn't affect my husband the way they did me. They did affect him but not as deeply. He is not as analytical and deep feeling as I am. I just accept that we are all different and do what I feel I need to do.