Harold Hoffman attacks Jim Kilgore

[houstonupci]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Elder Kilgore preached all these UPCI standards as you called them and argued FOR the affirmation statement which includes all of these. Younger Kilgore says Jn. 3:5 is not water baptism. The exact opposite his Dad taught.

You've just proven that you're speaking based on rumors and not on first-hand knowledge. If he doesn't believe in water baptism, then how would you explain this photo? It was taken SIX weeks ago. It's rare for us to have a Sunday go by without multiple people being baptized.

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[aegsm76]

Houupci - I have friends and family who go to Life Tab.
This is not a new path or a new revelation.
Many have tried it before and have failed.
I have two brothers who attended churches that went down the same road.
One still holds onto the old path, even though he stayed with his church.
However, none of his children do.
The other does not attend church, anymore, and none of his children believe the "core" doctrine, either.
There is something curiously linked with the old "standards" that ties it to the doctrine.
I sincerely wish you good luck with your path.
But I believe it will be the downfall of many.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by houstonupci

You've just proven that you're speaking based on rumors and not on first-hand knowledge. If he doesn't believe in water baptism, then how would you explain this photo? It was taken SIX weeks ago. It's rare for us to have a Sunday go by without multiple people being baptized.

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You are either misquoting me or can't read. I never said he did not believe in baptism I said he does not believe Jn.3:5 is water baptism! He told me tat personally on a preachers' forum today.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by houstonupci

JK teaches biblical principles like modesty but not man-made UPCI-specific standards such as only skirts, uncut hair, no makeup, etc.

I shudder just typing those words. Those issues just seem so petty and pale in comparison when you consider the sheer number of lost souls out there just waiting to hear that there's a God that loves them and that they can have abundant life through Jesus Christ!

Exactly what I thought. So why did you in your original post say;

"If you were to visit our church, you would see a lot of different people that don't necessarily look like you would expect "holy" Christians would look. Why is that? BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL NEW"

The truth is they look the way they look because JK is no longer a clothesline preacher and teaches biblical principles. I would be proud of that and not making excuses for how folks look as it appears you are doing in your original post.

[houstonupci]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

You are either misquoting me or can't read. I never said he did not believe in baptism I said he does not believe Jn.3:5 is water baptism! He told me tat personally on a preachers' forum today.

I've never had a discussion with him on that particular scripture, but I have had the conversation with him about the necessity of water baptism.

Do you have a link for that forum? I would enjoy reading that exchange.

[houstonupci]

Originally Posted by CC1

Exactly what I thought. So why did you in your original post say;

"If you were to visit our church, you would see a lot of different people that don't necessarily look like you would expect "holy" Christians would look. Why is that? BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL NEW"

The truth is they look the way they look because JK is no longer a clothesline preacher and teaches biblical principles. I would be proud of that and not making excuses for how folks look as it appears you are doing in your original post.

I'm sorry that my statement came off the wrong way. Maybe I worded it the wrong way.

I don't mean women in pants or cut hair. I just don't think along those lines any more. I'm talking about the type of people I NEVER saw in my traditional UPC church growing up. Folks covered in tattoos, piercings, reeking of alcohol, and even a same-sex couple holding hands.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by houstonupci

I've never had a discussion with him on that particular scripture, but I have had the conversation with him about the necessity of water baptism.

Do you have a link for that forum? I would enjoy reading that exchange.

Can't it is a preacher's forum. I suggest you ask him personally. You have my permission to tell I quoted him.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by houstonupci

I'm sorry that my statement came off the wrong way. Maybe I worded it the wrong way.

I don't mean women in pants or cut hair. I just don't think along those lines any more. I'm talking about the type of people I NEVER saw in my traditional UPC church growing up. Folks covered in tattoos, piercings, reeking of alcohol, and even a same-sex couple holding hands.

And this is suppose to be good? Homos holding hands in church? Count me out.

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

And this is suppose to be good? Homos holding hands in church? Count me out.

Sorry, this just made me LOL for some reason.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

And this is suppose to be good? Homos holding hands in church? Count me out.

At least they were just holding hands!