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Originally Posted by Jim H
You're twisting and confusing my words! Not one time have I ever said that we are not to obey the commands of Jesus.
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Never said you did but the reality of obedience is the issue and it's ramification toward Eschatological justification at judgment.
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Obedience and "working to earn our salvation" are two completely opposite concepts.
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Depends on the what is meant by it... Do we earn salvation? If one means we fulfill our obligation to obtain? Yes! If one means "we" are the source of it... NO! It is Christ's offering and he is the author of it by his Word to us.
Joh 12:47 If anyone hears my words and does not
keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge;
the word that I have spoken
will judge him on the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a
commandment--what to say and what to speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."
Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Joh 15:8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
Joh 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.
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You'd like to marginalize my views, and from your lofty position as the holder of all truth call them heretical, but your opinion doesn't make anything truth or lie. The Word of God - in its entirety - is the only standard by which to judge what is and is not true.
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As I have always done is point to certain points of scripture and been consistent. See Above...
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Obedience to the Scripture is how we gain salvation -
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I have always said this of ALL PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM MY TRACK RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF WHICH IS CONSISTENT AND CLEAR!
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not by obedience to the rules of man
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I have never pointed to man made rules but consistently spoken against it for the LAW/WORD OF GOD that we respond to and in doing so we are justified in his site ad DOERS of the LAW and not simply HEARERS!
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or by working working working working trying to earn the gift that Jesus already paid for BECAUSE WE COULD NOT PAY FOR IT OURSELVES.
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We are servants/slaves/workers of righteousness BY CONTRACT to obtain eternal life through HIM who offered it to us. HE obtained right to become the administrator of the NEW COVENANT/LAW. He purchased it with his blood but because HE purchased it doesn't mean we have OBTAINED IT! It comes at a cost "to do."
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If there's anything the law taught us, it's that all of us were incapable of righteousness.
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this is so far off as a matter of context... we are not able to obtain perfected righteousness without him leading us. When he leads and we walk we are capable of perfect righteousness. Man does righteousness all the time. There is a difference between equal retribution righteousness and that which is perfected until the will of God and that is seen by his leading vs mans attempt to perfectly apply God's law.
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The very next chapter, he talks about how he was a Pharisee above all others, that he certainly had reason to boast in his flesh because of his righteousness in the law - but he counted it all as garbage!
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THe righteousness in the LAW is not garbage... you make a mockery of God's justice and righteousness. That which was the principle foundation of the law is in the basis of the new law. The law was righteous, just, Holy and good! The old law pailed in comparison in it's "form" in REALITY and SUBSTANCE toward us not in principle knowledge and realization of God's righteousness and holiness.
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When he states that those things that were gain to him are really "dung", he's using the most vile term he could use to describe what his own righteousness really meant. He isn't telling the Philippians to work to obtain grace or righteousness, he's telling them no amount of work could ever be done to obtain grace or righteousness. But grace requires us to be submitted to Jesus Christ - where He leads I'll follow - what He asks I'll do. It's not easy believing or sitting back with my feet up because of grace, but it's working IN RESPONSE TO OUR SALVATION BY GRACE because God has called us to good works. It's NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF EARNING IT!!
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in part you are correct but his point of "called" is that of a legal concept of realization by acceptance of condition. We have been "called", "requested" under the context of FOLLOW HIM as seen above by casting off all and doing his commandment. His WORD is LAW and is the same LAW he fulfilled. In DOING his WORD/LAW we abide in him as he did the Father. If not we are cast out as we have negated the commandment for another LAW or precedent in our lives.
Earn... I have pledged something in exchange for eternal life which is the answer to his call. I must fulfill the contract.
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You sound as if you're convinced of your own righteousness, so you've evidently attained what Paul was not able to (Phil 3).
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Doing his will is not my righteousness but his commandment realized through me of which I faithfully respond to the author of it.
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I'll readily admit that I have not yet apprehended that which I'm apprehended of Christ Jesus.
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nor can you as you are subject to covenant conditions until death and he judges you to have abided and have done his commandment which is to have abided in him and his WORD of which you are judged.
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I was on that treadmill for 22 years and had no joy, no hope, no abundant life because I was forever confronted with the fact that I'll never be able to do enough to be righteous in my own efforts.
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Well... this is opartly correct as what is referenced matter as the efforts are through his Word to us which is the righteousness in which we live by the commandment to do and are justified.
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Since shedding the performance-based concept of earning my salvation, I've come to understand the true meaning of grace - that makes up for my shortcomings, yet requires so much more than keeping a law that condemns me. So continue on with your sad attempt to discredit me. You have to live up to your own convictions. But I'm still blessed, and I'm standing fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made me free, no longer entangled by the yoke of bondage!
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if you don't believe in OSAS it always performance based no matter how your want to minimize the performance. we are judged according to our deeds in response to His Word.... see above on scripture
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