Lot's Revelation of Grace

[EA]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

There is no indication that Lot was declared unrighteous, yet the Scripture is very clear that he was declared righteous. Peter was speaking from the perspective of Lot having all ready completed his race, it would seem a little odd to speak of him as righteous if that was not the case.

Have you considered that Lot's life didn't end at Zoar? That he could have righted himself, repented and thus been declared righteous in the end?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

There is no indication that Lot was declared unrighteous, yet the Scripture is very clear that he was declared righteous. Peter was speaking from the perspective of Lot having all ready completed his race, it would seem a little odd to speak of him as righteous if that was not the case.

Your statement does not seem to be bared out by the context.

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds


Doesn't mention what happened after he was delivered out of Sodom.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Have you considered that Lot's life didn't end at Zoar? That he could have righted himself, repented and thus been declared righteous in the end?

Perhaps. I don't know. But if he was so unrighteous for being in the twin cities then why did Peter say he was righteous?

[EA]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Absolutely.

However, I will say that I believe one can commit unrighteous acts and still be declared righteous by God (justification).

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Would they first have to repent of those unrighteous acts to be justified by God?

I don't know.

What if, while driving, you maliciously curse someone, only to be ran over by a truck in the next instant? No opportunity for repentance.

Does God consider you unrighteous? Are you lost forever?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

HALF sister, and ftr, Lot having sex with his daughters was not within the confines of marriage. Btw, I am just about through with you arguing that incest with ones daughter is okay in the eyes of God.

How far are you willing to take that argument?

The logical conclusion is that if God okayed it for Lot, it's okay for guys to have sex with their daughters today.

That is downright screwy.

Lot did not have sex with his daughters any more than a victim of a date rape drug has sex with the rapist. Do I need to post the scripture again?

Gen 19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
Gen 19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
Gen 19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
Gen 19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
Gen 19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
Gen 19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
Gen 19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

For all intents and purposes they drug their Dad to fulfill there purpose to have seed in the earth.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Perhaps, but Baron cannot produce evidence that proves, without doubt, that she is any of the three.

Ed, who else was there for Seth to marry?

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Your statement does not seem to be bared out by the context.

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds


Doesn't mention what happened after he was delivered out of Sodom.

It sure seems that way to me. Lot was a just man. He lived in an evil city and yet remained just. We blast him for it, but God doesn't. Daniel lived in a wicked city too, but that didn't destroy him. The idea that Lot was so influenced by his culture that he became unrighteous is pure conjecture and has not a single verse to substantiate it.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

I don't know.

What if, while driving, you maliciously curse someone, only to be ran over by a truck in the next instant? No opportunity for repentance.

Does God consider you unrighteous? Are you lost forever?

I hope not because if God returns during rush hour heaven will be a lonely place.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Perhaps. I don't know. But if he was so unrighteous for being in the twin cities then why did Peter say he was righteous?

He was not unrighteous for being IN the twin cities. However, being in the twin cities led to unrighteousness.

His affections led him down a hurtful, incestuous path that led to the death of his wife, separation from his occupation, violent children and a life of shame.

God had to forcibly separate him from a situation that he should have left voluntarily.

[EA]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Ed, who else was there for Seth to marry?

That's not the point.

Prove that he married a relative, and then we'll talk.