We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[StMark]

Merry Christmas Aquila

Are we still not on talking terms?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by StMark

Merry Christmas Aquila

Are we still not on talking terms?

Merry Christmas StMark.

We're on speaking terms bro. It's just you asked some very personal questions at one point. I steer clear of that sort of thing. I know that you meant nothing by it but I'm pretty protective over my identity.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Would you say that it is all right for someone in Bible Truth Church to genuflect and kneel before they enter a pew, light candles for prayer requests, make the sign of the cross before and after prayer, and use prayer beads while they pray?

With all the fervent defense of erecting a pine tree with jewelry on it under the name of Christ, you open a pandora's box for a whole lot more issues.

I find this hysterical for those who fight against standards and then defend xmas trees as a way to celebrate a Christ's birthday on a day it didn't even happen. Is it all truth? Bible Truth?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I already said I do not involve anything Christian in Christmas, personally. It's just a time for gifts and decorations. Please read my words again. You are speaking apples of involving things in worship to the oranges of simply giving gifts without worship of any kind involved.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I already said I do not involve anything Christian in Christmas, personally. It's just a time for gifts and decorations. Please read my words again. You are speaking apples of involving things in worship to the oranges of simply giving gifts without worship of any kind involved.

Really?

How could Christmas not have any Christian value to the Christian?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Really?

How could Christmas not have any Christian value to the Christian?

You have to read the entire thread. Personally I limit it to a time of gift giving and fancy decorations, since it did come from paganism. Nothing about the traditions is actually Christian in origin. And I have a conviction against bringing Christ into things that originated in idolatry. Ezekiel 20 says that God did not want His name mingled amongst the trappings of idolatrous settings.

I will take advantage of the time and preach Christ to people who would otherwise not come to church other times of the year. But Holy Days are not part of the new testament church, and Christmas is a high Roman Catholic holy day (holi-day).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

This is where you've lost your sense of reality.

I think the problem is that you can't deal with being wrong. The reality is taht genuflecting before an individual enters a pew and prayer beads are as made up as the xmas.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You can't compare people who genuflect and kneel before they enter a pew, light candles for prayer requests, make the sign of the cross before and after prayer, and use prayer beads while they pray....to people putting up a seasonal decoration.

I notice that you use the word "seasonal" very politically correct way of masking the true point of this thread. We aren't talking about snowflakes, and snowmen, and autumn leaves in this thread. We have been discussing a holiday that has been left over from Roman Catholism, and found within mainstream Christianity. If people can celebrate a Popish Mass, then to be consistent they would also be able to perform other Catholic rituals that were borrowed from ancient pagan sects and adapted into the Catholic celebrations of Christ, and Saints.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now if they genuflect and kneel before the Christmas tree you'd have a point. The reality is that it's only a DECORATION.

They don't have to make the sign of the cross or kneel and genuflect.
They are already celebrating a Catholic ritual on December 25th.
You can also complete the ritual by keeping Jan 6th.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I knew this, bro. I am simply saying the underlying agenda is to propose that things pagan should not be repeated in Christians whether the worship to pagan deities is involved or not.

I read over this post once again, and allow me to answer it point by point.

As I read this a second time, I'm still convinced that you bringing up the names of the weekdays and names of planets, and the above quote had nothing to do with this discussion. The name "Nike" and "Mazda" are pagan, in Washington D.C. it's cluttered with pagan items and images. The dollar bill in your pocket covered with pagan symbols. They are part of the world system where you and I live. Yet, they are not part of any celebration that we have towards Christ.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I
And I resist that thought as error when it comes to times it is not done to worship deities. I give gifts a this time, but do not claim it as a "Christian" deal.

There is no problem with you giving gifts all year long, but while you are giving gifts during the month of December or on the 24th and the 25th, the rest of the free world calls what you are doing xmas. It would be like sitting in a bar and drinking soda and then walking out and meeting people from your Church family, or just folks from around El Campo, and telling them you didn't drink. They might smile and nod and walk off, yet in their minds they think you aren't being honest. Call it like it is, there is no need to dance around the subject. You're a guide to the blind and a teacher of babes, they don't believe all the philosophical hooey, they just want it straight and simple.
Giving (wrapped in paper with santas on it?) gifts on or around December 24th and 25th and saying it's not xmas?

If it walks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and has feathers, and coloring of a duck, odds are....it's a duck.

Originally Posted by mfblume

We're not to have holy days of any kind in the New Covenant.

I would agree with with you 100%.

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's just a time of gift giving.

I have a few Atheist friends who one of them calls himself a cultural Christian.
The reason for his comment is that he celebrates the xmas, with the gift giving and holiday fare. Now for him and everyone else who gives gifts at this time (except the Hanukkah, and Kwanza observers) to accept that it is about xmas (even if they don't acknowledge Christianity) then no matter what you want to call it you are doing like the Romans do.

Originally Posted by mfblume

the thread is about if one shoudl put up a Christmas tree or not.

With tree comes the rest of the story. It follows to its logical end, and where you have the tree it is a symbol of the Roman mass. That is the reason why some Rabbis, and civic leaders want a Menorah with the Kinara and Mishumaa Saba in full view with the Roman Catholic Jewelry Tree. You see Brother Blume, the reast of our society is not busy making agenda justifying excuses for the tree, they call it what it is, a religious symbol.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Would you say it is fine, then, to put up a tree if one is not doing so to honour Christ, but just to have decoration?

It is like you wearing a Hopi indian swastika on your back and walking around Germany or Israel and trying to convince everyone that it's just an American Indian symbol. Even my Athiest friend agrees that the tree is pagan to the core and a Roman Catholic symbol. No matter how much you don't want to admit it is a religious symbol, it is still a religious symbol. A Hindu Idol, or a Hopi Kachina doll on the desk in your office may mean nothing to you, but those who KNOW what they are aren't going to consider you serious, as a Christian when you tell them, that those items mean nothing.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I already said I do not involve anything Christian in Christmas, personally. It's just a time for gifts and decorations.

If a man walked down the streets of America naked and told the cops as they were arresting him that he had clothes on, wouldn't cause the police to believe him. The tree is a symbol of the Roman Papal holiday, and if you were Chabad Lubavitch, no other Chabadnik, would think you serious if you put up a tree. If you were devout Muslim, and you put up a tree no other Muslim, would think you serious in the faith of Islam. Symbols are symbols, men cannot wear dresses and not get strange looks by those who walk by, because the dress is still a female symbol. The Papal and Lutheran xmas tree is still what it is a religious symbol.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Please read my words again. You are speaking apples of involving things in worship to the oranges of simply giving gifts without worship of any kind involved.

The song remains the same Brother Blume, it would be like your wife giving you a present on your birthday and trying to convince anyone else that it wasn't a birthday present.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You have to read the entire thread. Personally I limit it to a time of gift giving and fancy decorations, since it did come from paganism. Nothing about the traditions is actually Christian in origin. And I have a conviction against bringing Christ into things that originated in idolatry. Ezekiel 20 says that God did not want His name mingled amongst the trappings of idolatrous settings.

I will take advantage of the time and preach Christ to people who would otherwise not come to church other times of the year. But Holy Days are not part of the new testament church, and Christmas is a high Roman Catholic holy day (holi-day).

I appreciate that you are on much of the same page as Brother L.T. Smith on the views of the xmas. I agree with you "partially" in the above post.

May you, your wife and your family have a good upcoming year.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I think the problem is that you can't deal with being wrong. The reality is taht genuflecting before an individual enters a pew and prayer beads are as made up as the xmas.

However, Christmas traditions are no longer part of a religious practice, it's just Western cultural tradition. No religiosity in Christmas trees. lol It's just a decoration.

I notice that you use the word "seasonal" very politically correct way of masking the true point of this thread. We aren't talking about snowflakes, and snowmen, and autumn leaves in this thread. We have been discussing a holiday that has been left over from Roman Catholism, and found within mainstream Christianity. If people can celebrate a Popish Mass, then to be consistent they would also be able to perform other Catholic rituals that were borrowed from ancient pagan sects and adapted into the Catholic celebrations of Christ, and Saints.

But the reality is that there isn't anything religious about it, it's just a Western tradition, often practiced by atheists also. It's been secularized.

They don't have to make the sign of the cross or kneel and genuflect.
They are already celebrating a Catholic ritual on December 25th.
You can also complete the ritual by keeping Jan 6th.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I don't even know what goes into a Mass, I might go to one to find out if that's what we're doing in our home. Can you elaborate on the rituals and show that my family indeed has a "ritual" mirroring the Catholic practice?

Please note, Christmas trees aren't "Catholic". They were originally pagan but have become a Western seasonal tradition.

[Aquila]

EB, for me Christmas is just a Western tradition. The Christian aspect of remembering the birth of Christ is just an opportunity I see to mention Christ to a lost and dying world. Yes, I mention it all the time, however, the world is more sensitive to this message during this traditional holiday. But I agree with you, technically Christmas has nothing to do with Christ, it's just a Western winter festival.