We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Aquila

We weren't witches.

And remember what I said about "fear"? It's all grounded in a superstitious fear of idols...which are nothing by the way.

By the way, I'm not superstitious, nor do I live my life in fear. I'm not pointing things out for *my* benefit. But you can't seem to see past the end of your nose. All you see is "tree" and "idol" and you get squirrely on me.

It'd also probably do you best to just forget that I was a witch, except possibly to accept that I know what I'm talking about.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Go artificial. It's easier to clean up and it really ticks off your pagan neighbors when you bag a god and toss it in the attic. lol

Really? You've spoken to your pagan neighbors to ask them if they even care?

And could you please provide me with a reference referring to a Chrismas/yule tree as a god?

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I care to differ. I married into a family that is part Jewish. They observe the Biblical calendar and celebrate the Jewish New Year. They don't give much attention to the calendar we use or it's holidays.

It's a contradiction to denounce Christmas as pagan only to turn around and observe a pagan New Year.

Do you mean the family you married into observes Judaism part way, or that part of the family is Jewish? I've been confused about that for awhile now.

Do they follow the Biblical calendar or the calculated Jewish calendar?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Do you mean the family you married into observes Judaism part way, or that part of the family is Jewish? I've been confused about that for awhile now.

Do they follow the Biblical calendar or the calculated Jewish calendar?

Most are Reformed Jewish. I don't really know all the details of their practice. I do know that they joke about how it's not really 2008. lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

First, I don't see anything "pagan" in it. It's evolved from it's pagan roots to such a degree that our current DECORATIONS don't reflect anything the original pagans who practiced paganism would recognize.

What you are saying is a contradiction. You say that "YOU" don't see anything pagan in xmas, and then you go on to make a statement that xmas has "EVOLVED" from "its" pagan roots? You keep telling us that you have Jewish relatives, so do I. Yet, in Christianity I have found that people never talk about how they have Italian, Greek, Turkish, Iranian or Palestinian relatives. They bring up their Ashkenazi, or Sephardic relatives like it gives their words or discussion credibility. My Jewish relatives don't have a clue about the Bible, and the one's who go to temple just know Rabbinical traditions of Talmud. Which that knowledge is pretty limited when tested.
Now that I have gotten that out of the way. Allow me to ask you this could you give your relatives a Hopi Indian vase that is decorated with Swastikas?
How about a Hindu carving with Swastikas? Adolf Hitler didn't design the swastika, or the rune symbols of the Waffen SS, they were old pagan symbols. They understood the original meanings of those symbols and therefore they employed them to mean something within their movement.
The Bible admonishes us to study to show ourselves approved unto God, also that we look well at our goings. We are to be sighted leaders of the blind, and teachers of those who have questions. giving lame answers to those who are not part of the Faith of Christ when they know that the xmas traditions are pagan, and Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, is just living in self serving agendas. People respect you more even when you conduct a certain tradition, and are willing to fess up to where it really comes from.
You are insulting the intelligence of people who are not in Christianity when you make up arguments to condone Roman Catholic, and pagan practices that are found within religion.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Second, what were pagan customs have become cultural customs as well. I'm European in ancestry, I value my cultural identity.

I value truth instead of denial.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Thirdly, Christmas used to be a dark winter's holiday with riots, vandalism, and worse. Our taking Christmas and "Christianizing" and "marketizing" it (for lack of better terms) was one very significant cultural developments within the past 200 years in regards to holidays.

Excuse me? Could you explain how you formulated the above statistics?

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't believe that decorating one's kitchen with ducks honors God, but I'm not against it.

Excuse me but what religion ever was recorded to decorate their kitchens with ducks? In what century did the Roman or Eastern churches adopt duck decorated kitchens to celebrate an occurance in the life of Christ?

Either you have been so busy waiting to counter my arguments that you are missing what I have been trying to say, or you don’t understand what the argument is about in the first place. To bring up duck decorated kitchens is like trying to argue that a glass of water and an oil tanker have something in common. Please allow me to remind you that we are talking about religions stealing from other religions to modify practices within the Christian Faith.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't believe that decorating the house with harvest themes in the fall honors God, but I'm not against it.

Have you noticed that you place a lot of emphasis on what you think, and what you believe? While that is ok and I have no problem with it are you saying because you believe something should be done a certain way, or because you happen not to have an issue with it, therefore no one else should have a problem with it?

Originally Posted by Aquila

I also don't think festive holiday decorations for Christmas honors God, but I'm not against it either.

You can decorate your house with drift wood and sea shells and dried up road kill, there would be no problem (disgusting) yet no issue. Yet, if you turn around and say that those things are to represent an occurrence in the scriptures to honor Jesus Christ, or some memory within His life 2,000 years ago. Then there would be an issue. I will also say this, what is wrong with prayer beads (rosary) lighting candles, genuflecting before you enter a pew, or making the sign of the cross? It doesn't honor God, but based on your logic, there is no problem. matter of fact, with what you are teaching most of the cults and Christian sects for over 2,000 years are all legitimate.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I performed an experiment this Christmas since I was knee deep in this discussion. Our family had just finished a delightful Christmas dinner, opened presents, and the kids were winding down. I then shot out a question, "Which of you would enjoy attending a church that believed what we're doing this Christmas was a sin?" Not a single person answered that they would enjoy such a church.

Was the above supposed to prove something? How about walking into a nightclub on the beach in Fort Lauderdale or Miami, and asking the people while they are right in the midst of their partying ask them if they would like to give up going to the night club and live a life of dedication to your style of Christianity. Listen you expect me to accept the example of a group of people unwrapping presents, eating holiday fair, and getting deep into the feel of the festivities, to answer your question any other way?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Actually, the majority opinion was that such a church was cultic,

Would you blame them? What do you expect? You demonize the subject right after these people are locked into a party mode. What did you expect?

Originally Posted by Aquila

like the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Why be so light, why not say Jim Jones, Branch Davidians, Charlie Mason's family, or Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan. This topic must be making way too much sense to you that it is causing you to make such an effort to justify yourself. Other people would just right it off and celebrate the Roman Feast, and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Aquila

lol

You have the right. Laugh out loud. No doubt.

Originally Posted by Aquila

We all agreed that most of these customs ORIGINATED from our pagan ancestors, but we're intelligent enough to know that these things have evolved into decorations and don't reflect the original pagan practice. In addition we're also intelligent enough to know that no one sitting around the living room was a pagan.

While picking the trukey, out of their teeths, and enjoying the bounty they had just unwrapped.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Some folk are just so heavenly minded.... they're no earthly good.

Some folks are so earthly minded... they're no heavenly good.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Aquila]

Bro, I think you're confused. Let me break it down...

Point number one, I know "Christmas" has nothing to do with Christianity biblically. I know it's roots are pagan. However, most of those ancient ways are long forgotten and it's evolved into a cultural winter festival void of ANY real religious connotation. Even atheists take part in the festivities. It's just cultural.

Point number two, I know that ancient Christians (Catholics), not knowing when Christ was actually born, took December 21 through like the 27th in which pagans celebrated the birth of one of their gods and dedicated it to Christ to replace the ancient pagan practice and draw pagan attentions to Jesus. It's not to be viewed as Christ's birthday, but rather just a day set aside to remember his birth.

So what? Frankly, it just doesn't bother me. I mentioned that I was in the military for 8 years. I've got far more serious things on my conscience, I assure you.

Do you believe that all of us are going to Hell for taking part in a cultural holiday and drawing some attention to Christ's birth on December 25th? Yes or no?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bro, I think you're confused. Let me break it down...

Point number one, I know "Christmas" has nothing to do with Christianity biblically. I know it's roots are pagan. However, most of those ancient ways are long forgotten and it's evolved into a cultural winter festival void of ANY real religious connotation. Even atheists take part in the festivities. It's just cultural.

Point number two, I know that ancient Christians (Catholics), not knowing when Christ was actually born, took December 21 through like the 27th in which pagans celebrated the birth of one of their gods and dedicated it to Christ to replace the ancient pagan practice and draw pagan attentions to Jesus. It's not to be viewed as Christ's birthday, but rather just a day set aside to remember his birth.

So what?

Do you believe that all of us are going to Hell for taking part in a cultural holiday and drawing some attention to Christ's birth on December 25th? Yes or no?

What about pagan names for the days of the week and months of the year and planets of the solar system? It is silly to be consistent with this issue.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What about pagan names for the days of the week and months of the year and planets of the solar system? It is silly to be consistent with this issue.

This is the Holier than thou crowd bro. They just want a reputation for themselves. It has nothing to do with their supposed consecration. It's just serves their ego.

Honestly, I think they focus on things like Christmas trees because they don't dare address the weightier issues of the law...such as justice and mercy.

I'm just out to see how far EB is willing to go with it all. LOL

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Honestly, I think they focus on things like Christmas trees because they don't dare address the weightier issues of the law...such as justice and mercy.

Amen. You said more than you know. Or maybe you DO know.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

True. But religious pride, arrogance, division, and strife doesn't appear to be so easy among those who highly prize their "no holiday" stance.

Brother Alex, those who want to justify themselves over do it, and always seem eclispe those who they point their fingers at.

They demonize what they can't argue against. Then ware themselves out trying to preach agendas, when the one who they come against is just presenting the facts.


No one is making them stop their behavior. They can't because it is never about force, but no one likes the one who points out that the Emperor has no clothes.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm much rather see a warm humble family

And I would rather see that 365 days a year.

Originally Posted by Aquila

with a Christmas tree

Have plenty of trees around the house, they just don't have jewelry on them.
Family is still warm, they are all humble and happy, and all done without Roman Catholicism, or Nordic traditions.

Originally Posted by Aquila

than an arrogant Pharisee who prides himself or herself on the fact that they don't have a silly tree and posts condemnation of their brethren on internet forums

Right between the eyes with the ice pick of agape love.

This subject must of kept you up at night.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Just a thought.

It's all about want and need, I'm no judge over you, I just present the arguments.

I choose to not celebrate a pagan Roman Catholic holiday. A holiday that the Bible speaks nothing about, and I would rather come clean and teach people that they don't have to celebrate something that isn't found in the Bible?
Isn't that what those who don't believe in standards harp on over and over again? Yet, when it's about their golden calf then you see the flip side.
Once a year and liberal becomes a legalist, when it comes to their xmas..


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com