Removing Zionism From the Chruch

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by AllScripture

Four years ago, while teaching Search for Truth 2, I noticed that, according to the study, that the Lord should return in 1988. Of course, 1988 has passed and no rapture! So what is one to do? In my case, I decided to redefine a "generation" as 70 years instead of 40. I even wrote the number 70 in the margin of p. 281 of my copy of the Search for Truth 2 teachers manual. So with the assumption of 70 years, I came up with the year 2018 (1948 + 70) as the year the Lord would return. Now something tells me that the year 2018 will come and go........and there will not be a rapture or any other kind of return of the Lord. I'm not being a scoffer or skeptic I just realize that my view of the "end times" was completely in error - for over 30 years.....

I never will understand date setting. The Bible is clear, we are to be ready always, working in the Lord's Vineyard.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Prepare to be an outcast in the UPC.

AllScripture had shown me this and I am thankful that iron sharpens iron. I was feeling dejected that I was being perceived as talking down and arrogant to some. So I prayed and flipped open the bible to a random page and read the first verse. I am sure we have all done this before. This is the scripture our Father led me towards this evening.

Psalm 35:1 Plead my cause, O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me.

Then I check the post one more time before turning in this evening. And I see a great Brother standing in the gap. God is Good all the time and his mercies are forever.

Selah

[n david]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

My point Is that God is Good. He does not just bless UPC or any other church because they are right or wrong. He Blesses because he is a Good Father.

Okay. I misunderstood your posts, then, because it appeared you were posting that churches could not have revival because they either believed in dispensationalism or held some sort of unbiblical reverence towards Israel. Cleary that isn't so, because there are churches having revival which (according to your post) have allowed sin in the camp and abomination in their churches.

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Only God can make that determination, I cannot.

Yet by claiming they're in sin and abomination, you've kind of made the determination yourself as well.

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

MT TURN!

should ministers teach error?

Obviously not. They should "study to show themselves approved." However, I don't believe this is as egregious an error as you. I don't believe this is, as some say, a heaven or hell issue. I believe this is way down the line lesser important things like shirt colors, sleeve lengths, etc.

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

UPC Search for Truth #2 Home Bible Study Course; Teacher’s Manual, Page 281.
Therefore, the “last generation” began in 1948. But how long is a Jewish generation? When will it mature? According to Jewish genealogy (Matthew 1:17), the Bible (Psalm 95:10), and the Dead Sea scrolls (under “Religious Belief and Practices”), a generation is forty years.

According to this the catching away of the saints has taken place in 1988. Hopefully they have corrected this in their newer versions.

Hey, remember "88 Reasons?" I can't believe it's been 30 years.

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Just be thankful that our Heavenly Father is Good. Sticking your head in the ground is unprofitable for truth.

I agree. I feel the same about Pastors who roast and toast anyone who doesn't believe their extra-biblical outward dress standards.

[Amanah]

My take away from this conversation is that IF we are basing our politics and eschatology on a grave error (the 1948 return of the Jews as a fulfillment of prophecy) then we may possibly need to rethink it. And since I enjoy reading why not read a book on eschatology.

[AllScripture]

Yes Amanah - "a grave error" is a good way of putting it. And it's not only date setting that is a problem it's the belief that there's some great biblical significance in the establishment of the modern state of Israel in 1948. It leads us to other questions such as who is the seed of Abraham? What constitutes a "Jew" in the New Testament? Was the New Testament "church" the fulfillment of prophecy? Can we find the "church" in the Old Testament?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by AllScripture

Yes Amanah - "a grave error" is a good way of putting it. And it's not only date setting that is a problem it's the belief that there's some great biblical significance in the establishment of the modern state of Israel in 1948. It leads us to other questions such as who is the seed of Abraham? What constitutes a "Jew" in the New Testament? Was the New Testament "church" the fulfillment of prophecy? Can we find the "church" in the Old Testament?

my thoughts off the top of my head while eating breakfast:

* the church is the seed of Abraham by faith
* the church, by the spiritual circumsicion of water baptism, is the new testament Jew
* the OT foreshadowed the coming of Christ, He was the Rock of the OT, the church was predestined from the beginning

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by AllScripture

Yes Amanah - "a grave error" is a good way of putting it. And it's not only date setting that is a problem it's the belief that there's some great biblical significance in the establishment of the modern state of Israel in 1948. It leads us to other questions such as who is the seed of Abraham? What constitutes a "Jew" in the New Testament? Was the New Testament "church" the fulfillment of prophecy? Can we find the "church" in the Old Testament?

I have always been puzzled by prophecy teachers that insist the "budding of the fig tree" in Matthew 28 is speaking of the reconstitution of the state of Israel. It always seemed that people were reading too much into Christ's statement. The context is simply one of Christ using nature as an object lesson, in this case the budding of a tree pointing to a change in season. He likens the events surrounding the Great Tribulation that he had already listed pointing to his second coming. Israel being reconstituted is not one of the signs he mentioned.

32..“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.

33..Even so, when you see all these things (the events listed in verses 4-29), you know that it (his second coming spoken of in verses 30-31)is near, right at the door."

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by n david

Okay. I misunderstood your posts, then, because it appeared you were posting that churches could not have revival because they either believed in dispensationalism or held some sort of unbiblical reverence towards Israel. Cleary that isn't so, because there are churches having revival which (according to your post) have allowed sin in the camp and abomination in their churches.


Yet by claiming they're in sin and abomination, you've kind of made the determination yourself as well.


Obviously not. They should "study to show themselves approved." However, I don't believe this is as egregious an error as you. I don't believe this is, as some say, a heaven or hell issue. I believe this is way down the line lesser important things like shirt colors, sleeve lengths, etc.


Hey, remember "88 Reasons?" I can't believe it's been 30 years.


I agree. I feel the same about Pastors who roast and toast anyone who doesn't believe their extra-biblical outward dress standards.

Yet by claiming they're in sin and abomination, you've kind of made the determination yourself as well.

Though I strive for perfection, I fall and have to repent. Pride is an abomination, and I have to repent all the time for being prideful. I ask the Lord to help me have a humble spirit. By your analogy I am going to Hell.

Here is another point on SFTBS2 page 281; The Star of David flies gloriously over a nation of miracles!

The Six Pointed Star is actually a New Age occult symbol. And our organization is promoting it as glorious? The Hexagram is 666. The hexagram, or six pointed star, certainly has three sixes. It contains a six, within a six, within a six: 666. (Count the sides of each triangle facing the clockwise direction, the sides facing the counter-clockwise direction, and the third six - the sides of the inner hexagon).

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

Amos 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. 27 Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.

The children of Israel were punished for glorifying this image. Should we not call it out?

Selah

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Please show me a post where I referred to myself as the "great watchman of the wall"?
I knew in my spirit that you took offence using this term. That you felt I was self-aggrandizing. Your derogatory comment; the great watchman of the wall, proved my instinct right. Funny how things pan out.

Why did Solomon mention conies in Proverbs? The male warns his family with a loud screech when he perceives danger. His family flees to their homes in the rock. I was trying to convey that we all should watch out for each other. That I am nothing special, because nature itself teaches humanity this lesson. And you perceive that as talking down to you?

Wisdom knoweth her children.

Selah

CO - I don't say this lightly, but I believe you are in a dangerous place spiritually.
I will sign off from posting with you.
I would encourage you to think on Paul's statement.
"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."
I believe the Spirit has impressed me to tell you that if you continue down the path you are on it will lead you to destruction.
For those you know me on here, this is not in character for me, but I feel I have no choice but to post.
I wanted to send you a PM, but again, I was checked in my spirit.
God Bless

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

CO - I don't say this lightly, but I believe you are in a dangerous place spiritually.
I will sign off from posting with you.
I would encourage you to think on Paul's statement.
"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."
I believe the Spirit has impressed me to tell you that if you continue down the path you are on it will lead you to destruction.
For those you know me on here, this is not in character for me, but I feel I have no choice but to post.
I wanted to send you a PM, but again, I was checked in my spirit.
God Bless

Can you be more specific? What is it in his belief set that you feel endangers him? Do you feel an Israelocentric eschatology is essential to sound doctrine? Just seeking clarification. Thanks.