Cults

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ILG

I'm not blaming the preacher. I'm saying that a doctrine that put faith and assurance into a process rather than in the faith of the believer is faulty and can have negative ramifications. For me it definitely did. I just want people to think about what they are saying and teaching.

Well it was the preacher that preached the doctrine right?

Ok let's just say maybe it's NOT the doctrine since not everyone feels that way. Feelings are subjective.

See the thing I have been saying here and trying to get across the last few months is there is not a One size fits all experience. It's not always ALL this church or that church or this doctrine or that doctrine.

One Person's experience is not always the norm.

For every Angry Ed there are plenty of Happy Teds

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by ILG

I just want people to think about what they are saying and teaching.

they are saying and teaching what some other guy believes, most of the time, with backing from a bunch of other (well-meaning) chaps, who really are pretty decent, all things considered, and don't have a clue. Dissention is immediately eliminated; a telling clue. There are many other indicators. I blame the preacher.

[ILG]

Well it was the preacher that preached the doctrine right?

Yes, but he wasn't trying to lead me wrong.

Ok let's just say maybe it's NOT the doctrine since not everyone feels that way. Feelings are subjective.

I don't think teaching baptism "in Jesus name" is necessarily wrong. I think telling someone who had been baptized in the titles that they are not yet saved and they have to do it with the preacher saying the name of Jesus over them or they will not get to heaven (a technicality) is wrong.

See the thing I have been saying here and trying to get across the last few months is there is not a One size fits all experience. It's not always ALL this church or that church or this doctrine or that doctrine.

One Person's experience is not always the norm.

For every Angry Ed there are plenty of Happy Teds

Then the happy Ted's need to stop saying that other people are going to hell and then we could all be happy. I don't really care that people are saying that I am going to hell because I already know they are wrong. But it took me 19 years to figure it out and I will never get that back. I would like to prevent that from happening to someone else. That is the point of this exercise to me.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by shazeep

they are saying and teaching what some other guy believes, most of the time, with backing from a bunch of other (well-meaning) chaps, who really are pretty decent, all things considered, and don't have a clue. Dissention is immediately eliminated; a telling clue. There are many other indicators. I blame the preacher.

Well, the preacher is also pretty decent and just believes this. So, I don't really feel a need to blame unless someone is being an ostrich, sticking their head in the sand and being a coward because they fear they may have to change. But I don't know who is in that position and who is just believing what they are told.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ILG

I don't think teaching baptism "in Jesus name" is necessarily wrong. I think telling someone who had been baptized in the titles that they are not yet saved and they have to do it with the preacher saying the name of Jesus over them or they will not get to heaven (a technicality) is wrong.

Well that's another issue. Im not dealing with whether it's wrong or not. We'd need to examine what the scriptures say for that topic. What Im concerned about is how you felt.

Then the happy Ted's need to stop saying that other people are going to hell and then we could all be happy.

I don't see them ALL saying that. But why should they? You pointed out there was no fault in the preacher. He was teaching you what he believed the bible teaches

BTW I teach IHML light all the time. I've never once told anyone they are going to hell. the IHML bible study itself does not teach people are going to hell for being baptized wrong if I remember correctly

I don't really care that people are saying that I am going to hell because I already know they are wrong. But it took me 19 years to figure it out and I will never get that back. I would like to prevent that from happening to someone else. That is the point of this exercise to me.

Yeah, when Lutherans tell me I am going to hell, know they are wrong too. I always knew that. My faith was in Jesus and still is

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by ILG

Well, the preacher is also pretty decent and just believes this. So, I don't really feel a need to blame unless someone is being an ostrich, sticking their head in the sand and being a coward because they fear they may have to change. But I don't know who is in that position and who is just believing what they are told.

yes, i also forgive the preacher. People still manage to find Christ with these beginnings. Even after reading 'abandon the world' in the Bible, grasping at it spiritually is very tough. It is not the path of 'success.' Gives rise to 'prosperity' gospel--cuz God forbid anyone mentions going Creation-centered, and just volunteering your time and abandoning your mortgage.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And YET I don't have fear. I have peace with God. Every OP I know has peace with God

BTW You never responded...even those groups that believe in faith alone without obedience consign others to hell

In their view anyone that does not have faith is going to hell, like Muslims, Jews and Atheists

Further they also believe anyone that does not believe in the Trinity is going to hell too.

It's always funny to find the angry fist shakers railing on Oneness because there are people going to hell.

BTW "Predominant" means "most but not all"

Thank you for your broad generalizations.

Do you agree that water/Spirit doctrine is the predominant soteriology among Oneness Pentecostals? I assert, based upon years of interaction with you, that you believe that there is a 50/50 split between 3 step and 1 step believers within Oneness Pentecostalism. That is definitely what your posts imply.

But it's just not true.

My original posts are solid. Water/Spirit Oneness Pentecostals not only condemn Trinitarians, they also condemn other Oneness Pentecostals based upon soteriology and "holiness standards."

You mention Atheists, Muslims, etc. That's another issue entirely. My original posts were focused on the way Christians treat other Christians.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And YET I don't have fear. I have peace with God. Every OP I know has peace with God

Wow, you possess a great super-power. You know what every OP feels?

THAT is laughable.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well it was the preacher that preached the doctrine right?

Ok let's just say maybe it's NOT the doctrine since not everyone feels that way. Feelings are subjective.

See the thing I have been saying here and trying to get across the last few months is there is not a One size fits all experience. It's not always ALL this church or that church or this doctrine or that doctrine.

One Person's experience is not always the norm.

For every Angry Ed there are plenty of Happy Teds

Why do you do this? It's a really bad habit.

You assign anger, motives, purpose, etc.

Have you ever considered the way you communicate? You should know that you are very dismissive, angry and arrogant.

You own a forum, a place to exchange ideas and experiences, but become upset when people do so.

Silly, really.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't see them ALL saying that. But why should they? You pointed out there was no fault in the preacher. He was teaching you what he believed the bible teaches

I didn't say there was no fault in the preacher. I said I am not blaming him. He was teaching what he truly believed. But I believe the doctrine is incorrect.