What I'm Learning From Islam:

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You might have a valid point if the literacy rates, in spite of all the doom, weren't so much higher LOL

The literacy rates aren't higher.

…the whole Arab world translates about three hundred books annually–one fifth the number that Greece alone translates; investment in research and development is less than one seventh the world average; and Internet connectivity is worse than in sub-Saharan Africa.[3]
August 2002
Fifty-seven Muslim majority countries have an average of ten universities each for a total of less than 600 universities for 1.4 billion people; India has 8,407 universities, the U.S. has 5,758.
. . .
Of the 1.4 billion Muslims 800 million are illiterate (6 out of 10 Muslims cannot read). In Christendom, adult literacy rate stands at 78 percent.[4]
November 2005
The 57-member countries of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) have around 500 universities compared with more than 5,000 universities in the US and more than 8,000 in India. In 2004, Shanghai Jiao Tong University compiled an "Academic Ranking of World Universities", and none of the universities from Muslim-majority states was included in the top 500.[5]
May 2007
The 2002 United Nations Arab Development Report, compiled by leading Arab scholars and intellectuals, reported that fewer than 350 books were translated into Arabic every year, less than one-fifth the number translated into Greek. The 2003 report added that the 10,000 books translated into Spanish every year exceeded those translated into Arabic— over the entire millennium.[2]
2008
[edit]Arab World
Nearly half of all women in the Arab world are illiterate
Nearly one in three people in the Arab world is illiterate, including nearly half of all women in the region, the Tunis-based Arab League Educational Cultural and Scientific Organisation (Alecso) said Monday.
Three-quarters of the 100 million people unable to read or write in the 21 Arab countries are aged between 15 and 45 years old, Alecso said in a statement.
Equally alarming, some 46.5% of women in the region are illiterate, the organisation reported, urging governments to put the fight against illiteracy at the top of their agendas.[6]
January 2008
[edit]Denmark
Two thirds of all immigrant school children with Arabic backgrounds are illiterate after 10 years in the Danish school system:
Those who speak Arabic with their parents have an extreme tendency to lack reading abilities - 64 percent are illiterate. ... No matter if it concerns reading abilities, mathematics or science, the pattern is the same: The bilingual (largely Muslim) immigrants' skills are exceedingly poor compared to their Danish classmates.[7]
May 2007
[edit]India
There has been a growing concern about the lack of educational qualifications of Muslims in India. While so far statistical information was lacking, the Census of India 2001 for the first time gives detailed educational data across religious groups.
Made available to INDIA TODAY exclusively, the findings are disheartening. The facts irrefutably demonstrate that, on an average, Muslim men and women are far less educationally accomplished than their non-Muslim counterparts, and this is so across almost every state in India.
. . .
In 2001, only 55 per cent of India's 71 million Muslim males were literate, compared to 64.5 per cent for the country's 461 million non-Muslim men. Less than 41 per cent of the country's 67 million Muslim females were literate, versus 46 per cent of India's 430 million non-Muslim women.
In proportional terms, the all-India Muslim male literacy rate was 15 per cent lower than that of non-Muslim males; this percentage difference increased to 17 per cent in urban India.
Far more serious was the percentage difference in literacy rates between Muslim females and their non-Muslim sisters -an 11 per cent disadvantage at the all-India level increased to over 19 per cent in urban India.
At the basic level of being 'literate', Muslim women were proportionately 11 per cent worse off than non-Muslims. The difference widened to 19 per cent for those educated up to middle school; to 35 per cent for those who studied up to Class X; 45 per cent for those who learnt up to Class XII; and 63 per cent for those who were graduates and above.[8]
August 2006
Muslims, India's largest religious minority, are "lagging behind" on most things that matter.
. . .
Educational disparities were among the most striking. Among Muslims, Shariff said, the literacy rate is about 59 percent, compared with more than 65 percent among Indians as a whole. On average, a Muslim child attends school for three years and four months, against a national average of four years.
Less than 4 percent of Muslims graduate from school, compared with 6 percent of the total population. Less than 2 percent of the students at the elite Indian Institutes of Technology are Muslim. Equally revealing, only 4 percent of Muslim children attend madrasas, Shariff said.[9]
November 2006
The first is the high drop..out rate among Mus..lim students. It is below even SC/ST students, who are generally considered the most educationally backward communities.
6% of girl students are forced to stop their education as parents think that there is no need for them to be educated.
The transition rate of Muslim students from class VII to VIII is very low compared to other communities.[10]
September 2013
[edit]Indonesia
The global standing of Indonesia’s universities has dropped according to the latest world rankings published by Quacquarelli Symonds. The University of Indonesia, remains No. 1 in the country, but is only ranked 273rd globally.
. . .
US and British universities dominated the top 20 in this year’s list, while ETH Zurich was the only university from a non-English speaking country that landed in top 20.
The University of Hong Kong came in as the best performing university in Asia, securing 23rd place, followed by the National University of Singapore at 25th. The Australian National University was also among best performers in the region, finishing in 24th place.
The University of Indonesia was the only Indonesian institution in the top 300, but fell from 217th from last year to 273rd. [11]
September 2012
[edit]Nigeria
Illiteracy among Nigerian women of child-bearing age is three times as high among Muslims (71.9%) as among others (23.9%). Two-thirds of Nigerian Muslim women lack any formal education; that goes for just over a tenth of their non-Muslim sisters.[12]
January 2011
[edit]Pakistan
Senator Haji Muhammad Adeel while addressing the inaugural ceremony showed his concern over the literacy rate in Pakistan which he said is amongst the lowest in the world. The actual literacy rate in Pakistan is hovering around 30% while this rate is around 15% in the tribal areas and the female literacy rate in tribal areas is around 5%.[13]
December 2011
Fata comprises of some of the least developed areas of the country, according to official figures, with the literacy rate for women standing at barely three per cent.[14]
January 2012
Pakistan ranks second in the global ranking of countries with the highest number of out-of-school children with the figure estimated to be about 25 million. Seven million have yet to receive some form of primary schooling. As many as 9,800 schools were reportedly affected in Sindh and Balochistan due to floods. Around 600,000 children of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa are reported to have missed one or more years of education due to ongoing militancy.

Pakistan has the lowest youth literacy rate. Only 59 percent females are literate as compared to 79 percent of males in the age group of 15 to 24 years. There are around 51.2 million adult illiterates in Pakistan. Only 65 percent schools have drinking water facilities, 62 percent have toilet facilities, 61 percent have a boundary wall and only 39 percent have electricity.[15]
September 2012
[edit]Saudi Arabia
In Saudi Arabia, the lack of books is accompanied by the struggle to modernize basic educational institutions. In his new book, Prophets and Princes, Mark Weston points out that Saudi Arabia did not have a high school until after 1930, and its first girls’ school was established after 1950. The Saudis have only 250 public libraries to serve a population of 26 million people, and there were no hours for female readers until 2006. The Saudis spend many millions of dollars translating and publishing the Quran into other languages, without devoting similar efforts to making foreign books available in Arabic.[2]
2008
[edit]Tajikistan
The deputy chairman of Tajikistan's State Committee for Religious Affairs said Friday the country has more mosques than schools.
Mavlon Mukhtorov said official figures show there are 3,425 regular mosques, 344 cathedral mosques, and 40 central cathedral mosques.
Mukhtorov said on February 16 his ministry issued permits for 45 new mosques to be built in different parts of the country.
Tajikistan's Education Ministry reports there are 3,793 schools, most of them overcrowded, and in many cases one classroom has up to 40 students.[16]
February 2012
[edit]Turkey
Pollster Adil Gür of A&G polling company interviewed 3,252 women in 42 provinces across Turkey on the subject of gender-based violence, ntvmsnbc.com reported on Friday.
. . .
Ten out of every 100 women in Turkey over the age of 18 are illiterate. Approximately 30 percent of women surveyed graduated from high school, and only 9 percent have a college degree. Twenty out of every 100 women over the age of 44 are illiterate.[17]
March 2012
Moroğlu [the head of the Turkish Association of University Women (TÜKD)] stated that only 2 percent of women have access to a university education, which is far below EU standards. She further stated that every two out of 10 women are still illiterate in Turkey.[18]
November 2012
[edit]United Kingdom
In 2004 a third (33 per cent) of Muslims of working age in Great Britain had no qualifications – the highest proportion for any religious group. They were also the least likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications (12 per cent).[19]
People of working age with no qualifications2004.gif
People of working age with no qualifications: by religion, 2004, GB
February 2006
[edit]United States
[According to a Gallup Institute study involving 300,000 people] The majority of Muslims in USA ... are less educated ... than the population as a whole.[20]
March 2009
[edit]Yemen
A shocking 65% of married Yemeni women aged between 15 and 24 are illiterate
According to the Multiple Indicators Cluster Survey (MICS) conducted by Ministry of Public Health and Population in September 2006....illiteracy among mothers, the health ministry’s survey shows that on average 35 percent of married Yemeni women aged between 15 and 24 are literate, with 59 percent of married women in urban areas and 26 percent of married women in rural areas being able to read and write.[21]

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

And you are in the business of what? Because anything and everything you buy with that business or do for another business is because someone else paid that business for what they make or do. Duh. I'll accept your thanks for keeping your car gassed up and your lights on and move on. The above is a pretty dumb comment though.

Tell me how much the production of oil increased when the west, especially America, became involved in middle east oil. Do you know? Do you have a wild estimate?

You know very well that the muslims in the middle east were little more than goat herders, camel riders, until America, with a handful of other western countries, actually came in and developed what the backward and ignorant muslims couldn't do for themselves.

Give thanks bubba!

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

There was a recent article about the Ohio State OB/GYN program that pointed out that 90% of the students in that program were female. Using your silly and convoluted logic what does that imply?

I will tell you what that implies to me. Muslim, christian, buddha, athiest, wiccan - it doesn't matter - women all over generally prefer female doctors for female issues

What you're not addressing is the fact that Islamic women are prevented from practicing medicine other than 'womens' medicine. It's yet another example of the oppression of women in the Islamic world.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Tell me how much the production of oil increased when the west, especially America, became involved in middle east oil. Do you know? Do you have a wild estimate?

You know very well that the muslims in the middle east were little more than goat herders, camel riders, until America, with a handful of other western countries, actually came in and developed what the backward and ignorant muslims couldn't do for themselves.

Give thanks bubba!

You mean CONSUMPTION of oil, right? LOL

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You mean CONSUMPTION of oil, right? LOL

No, I mean DEVELOPMENT of the oil industry in the Islamic countries. There was none until the west, especially the Americans, became involved. Again, the region was backward, fraught with ignorance, unable to move beyond a goat herding mentality. Islam had kept the region in darkness for so long they were among the most undeveloped countries of the world...until the west, the Americans brought them the wealth they enjoy today.

Give thanks to America. That's the reason you have a job, tex.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

The literacy rates aren't higher.

[21]

They are according to the UN agency responsible for tracking them. I suppose you didn't bother to open and review the statistics going back to 1970. The words were probably too long and counting that high is really, really exhausting huh.

Crickets on safety comparisons too. Safety isn't really all that important? LOL

What we have learned is that you think Muslim women in Muslim countries are oppressed and uneducated but yet you discuss which medical field they can practice in and the UN reports indicate that there are at least (10) Muslim countries where literacy of women is higher than literacy in the United States. We have also learned that you think Muslims are dangerous and violent but you cannot explain why the murder rates in the United States are higher than not 10, not 20, but 24 Muslim countries.

Conclusion: What has become evident in this discussion is that YOU personally don't enjoy the education of a typical Muslim Javanese girl but you have a lot of ideas about how they are educated.

That's actually pretty funny.

Put that under "What I'm learning from Islam" and put it in a frame.

I suspect, based on your logic, that like you, your wife doesn't have a college degree either. You probably keep her chained to the stove and read scriptures about submitting to you until her eyes cross. LOL

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

No, I mean DEVELOPMENT of the oil industry in the Islamic countries. There was none until the west, especially the Americans, became involved. Again, the region was backward, fraught with ignorance, unable to move beyond a goat herding mentality. Islam had kept the region in darkness for so long they were among the most undeveloped countries of the world...until the west, the Americans brought them the wealth they enjoy today.

Give thanks to America. That's the reason you have a job, tex.

There would be no value for their oil unless someone is CONSUMING it sport.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

They are according to the UN agency responsible for tracking them. I suppose you didn't bother to open and review the statistics going back to 1970. The words were probably too long and counting that high is really, really exhausting huh.

Crickets on safety comparisons too. Safety isn't really all that important? LOL

What we have learned is that you think Muslim women in Muslim countries are oppressed and uneducated but yet you discuss which medical field they can practice in and the UN reports indicate that there are at least (10) Muslim countries where literacy of women is higher than literacy in the United States. We have also learned that you think Muslims are dangerous and violent but you cannot explain why the murder rates in the United States are higher than not 10, not 20, but 24 Muslim countries.

Conclusion: What has become evident in this discussion is that YOU personally don't enjoy the education of a typical Muslim Javanese girl but you have a lot of ideas about how they are educated.

That's actually pretty funny.

Put that under "What I'm learning from Islam" and put it in a frame.

I suspect, based on your logic, that like you, your wife doesn't have a college degree either. You probably keep her chained to the stove and read scriptures about submitting to you until her eyes cross. LOL

The very first thing I learned from Islam, and it's seen frequently throughout the year, that it's the most violent religion on the face of the earth.

The second thing I've learned is that women are second class citizens within Islam. As Islam is exposed more and more to western ideologies concerning women, it's hopeful that women will rise to a position equal to men. As of today though, women have far fewer rights than men. Here's a little sample of what I've learned about Islam....

"Throughout the Muslim world, women are treated as second-class citizens who are inferior to men in terms of intelligence, morals, and faith. This arrangement derives from the Qur'an itself, which states unambiguously: “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other” (Qur'an 4:34).

The Qur'an likens a woman to a field (tilth), to be used by a man as he wills: “Your women are a tilth for you [to cultivate], so go to your tilth as ye will” (2:223). Such a view is consistent with the teachings of the prophet Muhammad, who emphasized that women were little more than possessions of, and objects of sexual pleasure for, their husbands: “The husband is only obliged to support his wife when she gives herself to him or offers to, meaning she allows him full enjoyment of her person and does not refuse him sex at any time of the night or day.”

The Qur'an instructs husbands to beat their disobedient wives: “Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property [for the support of women]. So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them” (4:34).

The Qur'an allows men to marry up to four wives; women, by contrast, may have only one husband.

A Muslim man can divorce his wife easily, but a Muslim woman faces great obstacles should she want a divorce from her husband.

Shi'ite Islam, the dominant form of Islam in Iran, allows for men to take “temporary wives”; i.e., short-term sexual companions who typically contract for a relationship that will last for three days, at which point it can be extended if the man desires.

Fundamentalist Islam permits men to have sex with slave girls also: “If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly [with them], then only one, or [a captive] that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice” (4:3).

The Islamic court system relegates women to a most lowly status. According to the Qur'an, a woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a man. In cases of rape, no conviction can occur in an Islamic court unless four male eyewitnesses testify to having seen the act occur. This is in keeping with a 7th-century edict issued by Muhammad.

The Muslim world also features the widespread practice of accusing rape victims of having engaged in illicit sexual relations (zina), an offense which carries punishments ranging from imprisonment and flogging to death by stoning.

The property and inheritance rights of Muslim women are meager in comparison to those of men. Islamic law mandates, for instance, that a son’s inheritance should be twice the size of that of a daughter: “Allah [thus] directs you as regards your children’s [inheritance]: to the male, a portion equal to that of two females” (4:11).

In some Muslim countries, the law stipulates that “the husband may forbid his wife to leave the home,” and that “a woman may not leave the city without her husband or a member of her unmarriageable kin accompanying her, unless the journey is obligatory, like the hajj.” Gender segregation in public is also imposed or encouraged in parts of the Muslim world.

Female genital mutilation is widespread among some Muslim communities, especially in Egypt, East Africa, Yemen, and Indonesia. Many Muslim leaders see the practice as essential for preserving women’s chastity on which the all-important family honor largely depends.

Veiling is another common practice in Muslim culture. The Hanafi and Maliki schools of Islamic law permit a woman's face and hands to be revealed in public, thus there is no need for a veil over the face. Among Hanbalis there are two opinions, some permitting the exposure of face and hands, others forbidding it. The Shafi'is demand that a woman’s face and hands be covered in public, thus demanding some kind of veil over her face.

In several Muslim countries, child marriages -- where young girls marry much older men -- are legal. This tradition derives from the fact that the prophet Muhammad married his favorite wife Aisha when she was six years old and consummated the marriage when the girl was nine. This is why, following the 1979 Iranian Revolution, Iran’s new rulers lowered the minimum age of marriage for girls to nine."

Next, tex!!

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

What you're not addressing is the fact that Islamic women are prevented from practicing medicine other than 'womens' medicine. It's yet another example of the oppression of women in the Islamic world.

I actually don't have to 'address' the fact since your post underlined what I originally said and it was that women in Muslim countries go to universities, graduate, and work. You said that they could not.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

There would be no value for their oil unless someone is CONSUMING it sport.

Tex, why not tell us how much oil PRODUCTION increased when the west, especially America, came to the aid of the ignorant and backward Islamic middle east countries. The muslims couldn't do it themselves.

I await.