All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

And don't forget all hair cutters are lost, all television owners are lost, all wedding ring wearers are lost, all who celebrate Christmas are lost, all who listen to country music are lost, all jewelry wearers are lost, all with make up on are lost, all colored shirt wearers are lost, all who wear shorts are lost, those with beards, moustaches, goatees, side burns, soul patches are lost, those who vote Democrat are lost, those that don't love Southern gospel quartet music are lost, those that let their kids play Little League are lost, those that don't use real wine for communion are lost, those that don't have foot warshin services are lost, those that put their little baby girls in baby pjs that are bifurcated are lost, those that don't have Sunday night services are lost, those that ride roller coasters at the amusement parks are lost, those that vacation in Florida rather than Branson are lost, those that play Old Maid are lost, those that don't replace the dice in your board games with a spinner are lost, those that wear open toed shoes are lost, those that say Gosh, Golly, Darn or Heck are lost, those that don't tithe are lost, those that don't wear panty hose or wear their hair up in a bun are lost, those that don't speak in tongues every dayare lost, those that don't believe like we believe are lost...

It's the song that never ends...

Wrong subject.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by B4 Nicaea

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

A false interpretation. The CONTEXT is that the Pharisees didn't know believe He was God. And you certainly have to believe Jesus is God to be saved. And trinitarians believe Jesus is God.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Ferd

LOL.

MP knows what the word "Fellowship" means in the context that Elder Epley used it but for others who think that means having dinner with someone let me elucidate.

“Fellowship” means to “Extend the Right Hand of Fellowship”. In other words, to stamp that person with official approval and as a pastor point to them as an example for the flock you serve.

Fellowship does not mean, dine with. Meet upon occasion. Hug when you see them and ask about their kids. It does not mean, go to their house or invite them to yours.

It does mean allow them into your pulpit and allow them to speak with your full approval. It does mean to send your kids off to some overnight camp with their kids and have their teachers teach your children doctrine.


You people who want the Good Elder to be some ogre are just silly.

The Good Elder and I don’t necessarily agree on this point. I do think that any Trinitarian who has been baptized in Jesus Name and filled with the Holy Ghost (and has not rejected the experience as some I know have) has a good chance at salvation.


(Imnottoallysureyoucanbesavedandvotedemocrat) hee hee.... Elder Light how are you my friend?

Matt 11:19
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Luke 7:34
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Jesus ATE at Zacchaeus' house---fellowshiped w him. He was a friend of sinners---how can you be a friend of sinners without fellowshipping w them?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

A false interpretation. The CONTEXT is that the Pharisees didn't know believe He was God. And you certainly have to believe Jesus is God to be saved. And trinitarians believe Jesus is God.

In truth the Trinitarians do NOT believe Jesus is God because they believe He is God the Son the second person of their fictional Trinity. Either He is God the Father revealed in flesh or a fake. There is no such being as God the Son.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by mrnbcox

There is no Bible for the Godhead being composed of 3 distinct persons.

Jesus said in that day He will tell many "Depart from me I never KNEW you"

Hard to believe anyone could have a relationship with Jesus & be saved without also knowing Him! For someone to say they are saved & not even know that Jesus IS God & not a trinity is sadly in error.

How can one be in a relationship with Him & NOT know who He is.

Trinitarians believe Jesus is God.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The Jesus of the Doctrine of the Trinity is NOT the Jesus preached by the Apostles nor declared by Jesus himself.

Maybe it's fair to say that to a degree, sir. But most sinners I know, whether thy came to the Lord in a Oneness church or Trinity church, were not even thinking in those terms. They were simply responding to the convicting and wooing of the Spirit to repent and surrender to Jesus.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

The problem of course with the use of some of the scriptures being used is that NO trinitarian I have ever met or had go through our new converts class actually believes in three literal Gods. Now, sure...the logical conclusion to applying the tenets of the trinitarian doctrine produces what must in actuality be 3 gods, but those who believe it see God as still one.

The difference is that most trinitarians see God as one along the lines of a corporation being one depsite having multiple departments under that one roof that operate seperately from one another. We Oneness tend to see God as One in terms of being literally a single absolutely monadic being. One being, filling three primary roles.

Either way they would say one god. The trinitarian doesn't truly believe in three gods, even though that is the ultimate sum of their description of the seperate "persons" of the Godhead.

Nevertheless, I don't think for a moment that trinitarians are going to hell over not understanding the Godhead. Theological minds far brighter than any on this forum have been unable to understand and "crack the code" of the Godhead for 2000 years and I doubt they are all going to split hell wide open over it.

I've heard both OPs and trinnies use the water metaphor (liquid, vapor, solid) to support their view of the Godhead. Most of the time it is semantics.

I firmly believe in one God. I can acknowledge there is a language of distinction that Jesus uses when speaking of the Father and the Spirit. The apostles continue that language in the openings of their letters. I have used and heard tortured explanations for Jesus praying in Gethsemane, on the cross, for His many references to the Father as though He is someone other than Himself.

The truth is that there are scriptures that are challenging to trinitarian doctrine and there are passages that are difficult for ops.

But when you ask the garden variety trinnie, he/she will tell you when they get to heaven they will see one on the throne. They will tell you that Christianity and their Christianity is all about Jesus.

I think ANYONE who claims to have this incomprehensible God figured out is at best naive and at worst arrogant.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

In truth the Trinitarians do NOT believe Jesus is God because they believe He is God the Son the second person of their fictional Trinity. Either He is God the Father revealed in flesh or a fake. There is no such being as God the Son.

Again, apart from die hard theologians, most Trinitarians aren't thinking in all of these dogma terms you describe here. The Trinity is seldom discussed in their ranks. You actually hear the term "Jesus is God" more than you hear the term "God in 3 persons". In fact, you could describe the Oneness doctrine to them and the majority would say, "That's what I believe!".

Bro Epley, I'm still waiting for you to respond to my other points.....

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Folks who would fellowship Trinitarians do NOT believe the message themselves.

My response....

If a Oneness pastor had not fellowshipped me when I was licensed with the Assemblies of God, then I never would have joined the Oneness ranks and been open to more truth. Somebody like...well....you....would never have reached me.

Furthermore, concerning Trinitarians who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost, please consider Paul's words in Ephesians 1:13-14......

Quote:
13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.

14 The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people.

Die hards like yourself seem to be forgetting what God is declaring about someone when He gives them the Holy Ghost. You should straighten God out on this matter, don't you think?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Doesn't matter how they want to describe it they still believe in 3 gods.

Yet you would be hard pressed to find a trinitarian who would embrace the notion they believe in three gods. The word person comes from The Latin word "persona".

"Persona is the Latin word for the masks used in the Greek drama. It meant that the actor was heard and his identity recognized by others through the sounds that issued from the open mask mouth. From it the word 'person' emerged to express the idea of a human being who meant something, who represented something, and who seemed to have some defined connectedness with others by action or affects. (We still use 'person' to connote this: we say of an infant who begins to show awareness of self in relation to others, 'He's becoming a person.') A person makes himself known, felt, taken in by others, through his particular roles and their functions. Some of his personae--his masks--are readily detachable and put aside, but others become fused with his skin and bone."
(Helen Harris Perlman, Persona: Social Role and Personality. Univ. of Chicago Press, 1986)

In that context to say God is three persons would actually fit our "manifestations". One actor wearing three different masks. One God manifesting Himself to us in three different ways.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Yet you would be hard pressed to find a trinitarian who would embrace the notion they believe in three gods. The word person comes from The Latin word "persona".

"Persona is the Latin word for the masks used in the Greek drama. It meant that the actor was heard and his identity recognized by others through the sounds that issued from the open mask mouth. From it the word 'person' emerged to express the idea of a human being who meant something, who represented something, and who seemed to have some defined connectedness with others by action or affects. (We still use 'person' to connote this: we say of an infant who begins to show awareness of self in relation to others, 'He's becoming a person.') A person makes himself known, felt, taken in by others, through his particular roles and their functions. Some of his personae--his masks--are readily detachable and put aside, but others become fused with his skin and bone."
(Helen Harris Perlman, Persona: Social Role and Personality. Univ. of Chicago Press, 1986)

In that context to say God is three persons would actually fit our "manifestations". One actor wearing three different masks. One God manifesting Himself to us in three different ways.

Oh good! So trinatarians believe Jesus is the father then!