Err on the side of caution?

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

I agree, I was there once too.

Liberating to finally understand how much he loves me... freed me to love him more...loving him more, well...that just sets me free to live in love more for Him... a little circle of love....gets better every day.

Yes!! Me too!! Funny how "back sliding" to those that live in fear of hell, means loving God more than we ever did!

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by Jim H

A true Christian will always have good works. But their good works do not earn their reward.

Quote of the Day!

[Justin]

Thank you for all your replies, as I am prayfully seeking God's wisdom and guidence.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

Quote of the Day!

could be one of the most heretical posts of the day.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

could be one of the most heretical posts of the day.

How is that?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jim H

Ahhh... the "I'd rather make heaven by a mile than miss it by an inch" statement I just referenced in another thread.

IMO, it's absolutely trying to make heaven by works. It's reliance on our own righteousness than God's.

Works only brings the condemnation of the law because you're trying to pay down the debt that Christ already paid for.

Absolutely.

In the church I recently left, the statement was often made.

"Is __________ (fill in blank..ex. mean wearing shorts) going to send you to hell? I don't know, but why find out."

and "I'd rather be safe than sorry."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Absolutely.

In the church I recently left, the statement was often made.

"Is __________ (fill in blank..ex. mean wearing shorts) going to send you to hell? I don't know, but why find out."

and "I'd rather be safe than sorry."

The problem with that thinking is you can insert anything in the blank..."Is wearing red going to send you to hell? I don't know, but why find out?"

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The problem with that thinking is you can insert anything in the blank..."Is wearing red going to send you to hell? I don't know, but why find out?"

Exactly.....

Thats ones of the reasons why I had to start my post with:

"In the church I recently left"

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Jesus constantly teaches salvation at a cost! Your view is that we do nothing in exchange for salvation goes against literally every teaching of Christ. He is author of salvation. If there is a condition to obtain. It isa purchase!

You're twisting and confusing my words! Not one time have I ever said that we are not to obey the commands of Jesus. Obedience and "working to earn our salvation" are two completely opposite concepts. You'd like to marginalize my views, and from your lofty position as the holder of all truth call them heretical, but your opinion doesn't make anything truth or lie. The Word of God - in its entirety - is the only standard by which to judge what is and is not true.

Obedience to the Scripture is how we gain salvation - not by obedience to the rules of man or by working working working working trying to earn the gift that Jesus already paid for BECAUSE WE COULD NOT PAY FOR IT OURSELVES. If there's anything the law taught us, it's that all of us were incapable of righteousness.

Originally Posted by Rev

(Php 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Nice drop and run with a scripture there, Rev! Care to expound on this at all? Your strategy of just plunking down a scripture without explaining the context of it or how it should edify us is deficient and adds nothing to the conversation in this thread.

The next sentence says "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." The working is because of the Spirit's leading - not a law, and not in order to earn salvation. The work is in response to salvation. Again... any true Christian WILL HAVE good works. There will be fruit on the tree! But to say that Paul is telling the Philippians that they need to stay busy working so they can be saved goes contrary to tone of any of Paul's other letters and does violence to the context of this particular letter.

The very next chapter, he talks about how he was a Pharisee above all others, that he certainly had reason to boast in his flesh because of his righteousness in the law - but he counted it all as garbage! When he states that those things that were gain to him are really "dung", he's using the most vile term he could use to describe what his own righteousness really meant. He isn't telling the Philippians to work to obtain grace or righteousness, he's telling them no amount of work could ever be done to obtain grace or righteousness. But grace requires us to be submitted to Jesus Christ - where He leads I'll follow - what He asks I'll do. It's not easy believing or sitting back with my feet up because of grace, but it's working IN RESPONSE TO OUR SALVATION BY GRACE because God has called us to good works. It's NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF EARNING IT!!

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

could be one of the most heretical posts of the day.

Good one, judaizer! Good one!
Keep working working working working trying to earn your salvation. You sound as if you're convinced of your own righteousness, so you've evidently attained what Paul was not able to (Phil 3). I'll readily admit that I have not yet apprehended that which I'm apprehended of Christ Jesus. I was on that treadmill for 22 years and had no joy, no hope, no abundant life because I was forever confronted with the fact that I'll never be able to do enough to be righteous in my own efforts. Since shedding the performance-based concept of earning my salvation, I've come to understand the true meaning of grace - that makes up for my shortcomings, yet requires so much more than keeping a law that condemns me. So continue on with your sad attempt to discredit me. You have to live up to your own convictions. But I'm still blessed, and I'm standing fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made me free, no longer entangled by the yoke of bondage!

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

What about these:

James 2:14

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works ? can faith save him?
KJV

Can faith save him? If no works.

James 2:21

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works , when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
KJV

Abraham was justfied by works.

James 2:24

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
KJV

A man is justified by what? works.

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So if no fruit or proof then no faith and lost?

Anyhow james cleary (sic) said "Was not Abraham our father justified by works"

" Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Sorry, I missed these.

Yes, if you want to only read James' epistle, you might be convinced that we are justified by works. But the rest of the NT epistles describe a work that is born out of our faith. We are justified by faith, and we demonstrate our faith by our works. When you take all into consideration, you must recognize that good works are a response to faith - faith without (good) works is dead (meaningless). If you're not demonstrating your faith, how much faith do you really have?

Can you ignore these passages that clearly indicated that we are justified by faith?

Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Further, toward the end of this chapter, Paul states how Abraham believed God, and because of his faith, righteousness was imputed unto/bestowed upon him. Then, continuing on into Ch 5:

Romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

In his letter to the Galatians, while describing his confrontation with Peter over his treatment of the Gentile converts, says:

Galatians 2
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

and continues...

Galatians 3
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.