Baron, though we are on different sides on the TB issue you usually post things that make sense. But this is so way off aside from the cutness of using Balaams dockey to subtly call TB a dockey. The examples that you give to support the contention that God can use anyone do not apply to TB. NO WAY WILL GOD GO OUT AND FIND A DEMONIC POSSESSED INDIVIDUAL TO PREACH HIS HOLY GOSPEL. What did Paul do to the woman who cried, "these man are servents of the most high God?" He told her to shut-up! You should have the same response to TB. Very little of what he did was preaching the gospel. EVERY TIME I watched I saw "healings" and self promotion.
How can anyone defend him now by saying he needs our prayers??? He has made his million, he got caught with his zipper down with the wrong woman. It is not as if he were in ICU with tubes running out of every orifice and his soul dangling over brimstone. Good grief.
First, I don't make the jump that he is demon possessed.
Second, and this really is the issue here for me, regardless of what TB had in mind I do think people who responded in faith to God, not to TB, could be saved or healed. That doesn't mean God went out of his way to use TB, but rather in spite of what TB may have had in mind God could use his words to convict people.
The post that kicked me into posting on this thread was about a man who truly loves God, is filled with the Spirit and was/is filled with tumors that the Doctors told him they could no longer do anything for. Out of desperation they went to Florida and a TB event (or whatever you want to call it) for whatever reason the tumors are shrinking now when the Dr says they ought to be growing. I don't know what the outcome will be but I will not discount the work of God because someone who purports to be a spokesman from God is really a fraud.
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"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
First, I don't make the jump that he is demon possessed.
Second, and this really is the issue here for me, regardless of what TB had in mind I do think people who responded in faith to God, not to TB, could be saved or healed. That doesn't mean God went out of his way to use TB, but rather in spite of what TB may have had in mind God could use his words to convict people.
The post that kicked me into posting on this thread was about a man who truly loves God, is filled with the Spirit and was/is filled with tumors that the Doctors told him they could no longer do anything for. Out of desperation they went to Florida and a TB event (or whatever you want to call it) for whatever reason the tumors are shrinking now when the Dr says they ought to be growing. I don't know what the outcome will be but I will not discount the work of God because someone who purports to be a spokesman from God is really a fraud.
Ok, I do. I think it is obvious.
If you are making the argument "God honors faith..." Ok, I agree completly and your post is in keeping with my overall impression of how you normally write.
I thought you were trying to defend TB at the expense of ignoring all the red flags of demonic influence (or even possession), false prophet, etc......
First, I don't make the jump that he is demon possessed.
Second, and this really is the issue here for me, regardless of what TB had in mind I do think people who responded in faith to God, not to TB, could be saved or healed. That doesn't mean God went out of his way to use TB, but rather in spite of what TB may have had in mind God could use his words to convict people.
The post that kicked me into posting on this thread was about a man who truly loves God, is filled with the Spirit and was/is filled with tumors that the Doctors told him they could no longer do anything for. Out of desperation they went to Florida and a TB event (or whatever you want to call it) for whatever reason the tumors are shrinking now when the Dr says they ought to be growing. I don't know what the outcome will be but I will not discount the work of God because someone who purports to be a spokesman from God is really a fraud.
God does honor the faith of individuals if indeed they are ultimately placing that faith in Him. However, in my opinion, the harm that false prophets do to the Kingdom and our world far outweighs any genuine but rare occurence of healing due to legitimate faith in God. Once again, if you have any questions concerning what real harm false prophets are capable of doing, just read what the Bible says is going to happen as a result.
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There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Listen, TB seems to me, to be a nutcase from the get go. I abhor his ways and think he is as wacky as they come. He is not a prophet. People are so hungry for something from God, that many of them will put up with the wackiness to get it. I don't condone anything TB has done, but there were people who have been touched by his ministry just as there were people who were healed under some of the WWII healing evangelists whose lives were in a deplorable state.
Stating that God used TB is not in any way justifying any level of his aberrant ways. God DID use him. So did the Adversary and it appears to me that the Adversary did most of the using. God can take the worst situation and worst individual and perform His purposes for His people who are hungry. God is sovereign and does things HIS way and not according to OUR understanding.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
David was an anointed King/Prophet. TB IS NOT IN THAT CLASS.
I don't think that makes his sins of less effect than that of TB.
Is TB possessed? He certainly isn't all there, IMO, but I cannot say with absolute certainty that he's possessed.
But to say that God cannot and will not use less than perfect men to preach His Word? Well, I don't find that in the Bible.
I think, like someone else said, that God honors faith IN SPITE OF who the preacher is or what he's done.
We have preachers and pastors falling all the time, yet have Holy Ghost filled services while they are living in sin. God still uses those people to save others.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
disclaimer Nothing said in any previous or subsequent post should be construed in anyway to defend, approve of, or encourage the antics, sins, false doctrines, or assaults by Todd Bentley, all defense is to be applied to the amazing King of Kings who can work through any situation and take the words of mere mortals and use them to convict people of sin and redeem their lives, physically emotionally, and spiritually.
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"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
I can name several ministers and pastors who had people come to God under their ministry while they were engaged in gross sins. Even UPC preachers.
But I'd be really careful in claiming that God would be contradicting His Word by using those people, or negating the salvation of those saved under such men.
The Bible says that ALL our righteousness is like filthy rags to God. It's not talking about the ones you dust with or wipe your car with either.
If OUR righteousness is that way to God, is TB's unrighteousness really any worse?
God uses our righteousness equatable to filthy rags to bring His Word to the lost and dying, yet we question His ability to work through unrighteous people?
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I see scripture that says the Holy Ghost leads into truth, but haven't found the one that says the Holy Ghost will only draw people via Apostolics.
Thank God for that huh?!!!! I would never have found God if I had not been drawn by a myriad of things circumstances and people before I ever laid EYES on an Apostolic!!!! One of the most profound things God used to draw me to him sounds almost blasphemous now, but the song Jesus Christ Superstar struck such a deep chord within my spirit along with Spirit in the Sky and Oh happy day, that it is probably one of the turning points of my life and the catalyst that caused me to really and truly feel that there was a living Jesus who was CONTEMPORARY and not just a historical albeit divine person.
The priest who said mass every afternoon at Saint Theresas Churchm no doubt about it God used him in a very very wonderful way to point me even closer to the truth of Acts 2:38 salvation.
I guess it is hard to articulate but there IS a difference between the well meaning people out there who do not have a revelation of the full Gospel and who in many ways are fellow seekers of truth out in the darkness, and the wolves who actually PREY not PRAY on people. TB (what an appropriate set of initials huh?) immediately screamed FALSE PROPHET to my spirit, he didnt just lack understanding but was actually PREYING on innocents, If others dont see that I can understand how they would feel sympathy for him so dont have an axe to grind there, but when you start to smell the wet wolf fur and see the bleeding corpses around , well be on the lookout there IS a wolf somewhere. And really you dont pray for wolves you do pray against them. In fact you bash they little wolf heads with the stick God puts in your hand his word.
I can name several ministers and pastors who had people come to God under their ministry while they were engaged in gross sins. Even UPC preachers.
But I'd be really careful in claiming that God would be contradicting His Word by using those people, or negating the salvation of those saved under such men.
The Bible says that ALL our righteousness is like filthy rags to God. It's not talking about the ones you dust with or wipe your car with either.
If OUR righteousness is that way to God, is TB's unrighteousness really any worse?
God uses our righteousness equatable to filthy rags to bring His Word to the lost and dying, yet we question His ability to work through unrighteous people?
TFT preached something years ago that has stuck with me. He said that God had already declared the raven an unclean bird, and yet he used the raven to bring good food to Elijah when he was sitting by the brook Cherith.
Sometimes God uses unclean vessels to bring good food to honest people in need. That doesn't make the vessel clean, but the Word is always clean.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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