Bishop G E Patterson - fussing thread (see other thread for nice things) - Page 11

SDG · #**101** 03-23-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am NOT saying the good Bishop never recieved the Holy Ghost but if he did he certainly did not follow it. The Holy Ghost would lead a preacher to stand and preach for truth. And after a long ministry and still failing to preach truth?
Sorry I don't believe it. And NO it takes MORE than HGB to put you in the body these folks in Corinth had been water baptized in Jesus Name. The focus here is giving everyone their right place in the body through HGB he is not discussing the plan of salvation rather the position and work in the local body. NO ONE is in the church without baptism in Jesus Name.

That applies if you are a "water and spirit" man .... Not all of us are.

Steve Epley · #**102** 03-23-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

That applies if you are a "water and spirit" man .... Not all of us are.

Jesus was a 'water & Spirit' man thus I am in good company! YOU howver are in company with the majority of false prophets living and dead.

mizpeh · #**103** 03-23-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
and

1 Corinthians 12:13

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

These same scriptures are used by PAJCers to say why the BAPTISM of the HG is REQUIRED .... for salvation ... yet it seems to only apply to those that interpret scripture as they do .... where is the consisitency???

Being born of the Spirit is only one part of the new birth. John 3

There is the doctrine of "baptisms". Heb 6:1-2 And the verses that state baptism (water) saves us.

Timmy · #**104** 03-23-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We obey Matthew 28:19 when we are baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ.

OK. Are we disobeying Acts 2:38 if we baptize using the Matthew 28:19 wording?

SDG · #**105** 03-23-2007, 10:11 AM

Elder ... Jesus was a new birth man ... Where we, you and I, differ is in the interpretation of John 3 ..... You have equated water with water baptism ... while others see it as something else ..

Clearly in John Jesus and Nicodemus were having a conversation about the new covenant that was promised through the prophets....

Ezekiel 36
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

If water in John 3 is water baptism should we do as God said he do would by SPRINKLING water... in verse 24 of Ezekiel .... and how will we get to the heart ... surgery?

Jesus promised his Spirit would be living waters also ...

Gentlemen where does scripture equate water baptism with being born of the water /Spirit??????

Steve Epley · #**106** 03-23-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Elder ... Jesus was a new birth man ... Where we, you and I, differ is in the interpretation of John 3 ..... You have equated water with water baptism ... while others see it as something else ..

Clearly in John Jesus and Nicodemus were having a conversation about the new covenant that was promised throught the prophets....

Ezekiel 36
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

If water in John 3 is water baptism should we do as God said he would by SPRINKLING ... in verse 24 of Ezekiel .... and how will we get to the heart ... surgery?

Jesus promised his Spirit would be living waters also ...

Gentlemen where does scripture equate water baptism with being born of the water??????

The question was about being born AGAIN.
But to answer the question we have discussed over and over:
Mk. 16:16, Mt. 28:19, Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, etc.

SDG · #**107** 03-23-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The question was about being born AGAIN.
But to answer the question we have discussed over and over:
Mk. 16:16, Mt. 28:19, Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, etc.

You don't have a scripture do you to equate water baptism to being born again ... or the New birth ... do you ... ???

The scriptures you have provided discuss the necessity of obeying Jesus command for baptism ...

Steve Epley · #**108** 03-23-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You don't have a scripture do you to equate water baptism to being born again ... or the New birth ... do you ... ???

The scriptures you have provided discuss the necessity of obeying Jesus command for baptism ...

Born of the Spirit is baptism thus born of water is baptism very simple. The Blood-water-Spirit agree in one that is one birth.

SDG · #**109** 03-23-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Born of the Spirit is baptism thus born of water is baptism very simple. The Blood-water-Spirit agree in one that is one birth.

I await the scripture ....

#**110** 03-23-2007, 10:45 AM

NOBODY has aswered the question yet: Can ANYBODY be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38? Why are there no answers to this?

Timmy, you are obeying Matthew 28:19 when you baptize in the NAME of Jesus for it IS the NAME of the Father, the NAME of the Son and the NAME of the Holy Ghost.

At the very least, folks, one would have to believe in repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the Holy Ghost to genuinely have any claim to being Apostolic! What is with the folks that claim to be Apostolic and don't come close to believing Acts 2:38 which defines the basic doctrinal foundation.

If you think you 'become' something just because you 'claim' the title it's ludicrous... I think I'll claim to be Bill Gates! Wait... no, just looked in my wallet and I'm not Bill Gates. Why? Because I don't have what Bill Gates has! Some folks seem to claim 'Apostolic' as their title and yet seem to think you can get to Heaven in this dispensation without obedience to our basic scriptural tenet. If you fall in that category then you're NOT Apostolic because you don't have what the Apostolics had.

Much of this debate could end with the answer of the real question. Again, the question: Do you think you can be saved in this dispensation outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?