My visit to a Messianic service yesterday

[shazeep]

Lafon, it sure sounds like you just gave Sean some "rapture" ammo! When Christ returns, it will be to universal apostasy? Really? Hmm, i'll have to sleep on this one.

[votivesoul]

The matter is settled in Romans 11:23,

23. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

The moment "they", meaning Jews, no longer abide in unbelief, God will immediately graft them back into the vine. Jews from all time periods since the first century until now, on an individual level, have chosen to no longer abide in unbelief and committed their faith to the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth (and not "another Jesus").

Going further into the chapter, in verse 32, the reason the blindness happened and why God gave them all up to unbelief is so He could have mercy upon all (i.e. not just some). And we know that it's according to His mercy He saves us.

And by the way, in order for "all Israel to be saved", as verse 26 reads, there has to be a true group of descended from Jacob in order to be Jews group of people who can and will be saved.

And as a matter of fact, I've met some of them.

[mfblume]

Why say genealogy is required when Moses said otherwise? I don't understand that oversight.

[shazeep]

hmm, the Moses ref sounds more like an adoption, imo.
the 144k would have a voice here?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm, the Moses ref sounds more like an adoption, imo.
the 144k would have a voice here?

As one born in the land is as one born in the land. 144k, with 12k exactly from each tribe, and Joseph is a tribe.... Gotta be symbolic.

[Abiding Now]

Paul would probably LOL at folks that want to be "messianic apostolic".

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Paul would probably LOL at folks that want to be "messianic apostolic".

He would be more comfortable with "Messianic" than with "Apostolic" of that Im pretty sure.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

He would be more comfortable with "Messianic" than with "Apostolic" of that Im pretty sure.

Why?

[Michael The Disciple]

Messianic refers to the MESSIAH...which he loved, YESHUA.

Apostolic is a term referring to the Apostles. Im sure he would have rather been focused on the MESSIAH and not on his servants.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Messianic refers to the MESSIAH...which he loved, YESHUA.

Apostolic is a term referring to the Apostles. Im sure he would have rather been focused on the MESSIAH and not on his servants.

John 17:20 seems to be a focus on the apostles, as well. But I see your point.