i do understand that some females do not like being alone...but I do not think it is mostly security/acceptance driven. agreed there are times when a female would feel unsafe and the need to have more people with her...but i do not believe this is the primary reason they go to the restroom in packs...or attend church.
If women don't find security and acceptance in the church they will find it elsewhere. Its in our nature.
Salvation should lead to a sense of security, in God of course. God's love should lead to a feeling of acceptance. Add fellowship with other women and bingo, you have a combo that appeals to women.
Women often remain in an abusive relationship with a man because of a false sense of security. Where will I go? What will I do? Etc. all come to mind if someone suggests she leave the jerk.
Likewise, women will often remain in a church that may not be ideal due to a sense of security whether it be false or otherwise. Men on the other hand will bail out or will unhappily remain for the sake of their spouse. Ask me how I know...on second thought, don't ask.
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"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
He is, but he won't. If he did, everyone would be saved - since he does not wish that any should perish...
You say He won't, but there are several examples in scripture where He did. I don't find any scripture where He called someone to do something and when they wouldn't 'step-up', He decided to just find someone else. And I'm speaking not of calling people to salvation, but to do a certain job in the kingdom. I don't believe God will 'settle' for a woman because He can't get men to do His will.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
EVERY denomination that has espoused Women Pastors has had a drastic and long term DROP in membership.
The problem with the original premise in Microtrends is Causality vs Correlation.
The examples given by some posters are wonderfully anecdotal however the fact remains by and large conservative denominations may allow women pastors, but that is not the norm, nor a significant percentage. Women pastors are treated more with tolerance than genuine respect.
Therefore we look at who is embracing women pastors and we find ourselves looking at the most liberal denominations. It is true that denominations which have openly embraced female pastors are on the decline, but is that the CAUSE, (since all liberal denominations are rapidly losing membership)?
The logic presented is somewhat akin to that used in Freakonomics to support the proposition that Roe v Wade was responsible for a decrease in violent crime, perhaps the offspring of the poor are more likely to commit crime, but the same time period also saw major overhauls of criminal justice systems in states like Texas which greatly reduced recidivism. Just because one can find a correlation in data does not mean you have found THE cause. (Especially in a multi-faceted issue.)
Therefore unless or until conservatives embrace the fairer sex in pastoral positions (don’t hold your breath) it is totally rhetorical. There is absolutely no way to determine what contribution, IF ANY, that having women pastors have contributed to the decline of those denominations.
You know, I've heard this same statement so many times, but every time I hear it, it sounds like God doesn't know what He's doing. I mean, if He's all-knowing, why do you suggest He uses women as a last resort? Isn't He all-knowing enough to find men who will step up?
We don't see in scripture where God calls someone to do a work, then just goes to someone else if that person doesn't step up, right? No, He is all-powerful enough to MAKE that person step up, and we see that several times in scripture.
But that statement highlighted above has no Biblical basis whatsoever. None. Women aren't second-class to God, but that's exactly what that statement sounds like.
Well if he is all knowing why not just call saints that will never backslide?
The problem is your post ignores one little fact....will.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
interesting. so God creates us all...male & female in His image...blesses us all with His grace, love, and mercy...gives us all gifts & talents...but then says that less than half are even "allowed" to pastor?
to be a true "pastor"...is a calling that God places on someone...who He has given the talents and abilites to perform the call. IMO....to say that God only uses women as "pastors"...when qualified men are not willing is ridiculous. I know plenty of unqualified men who cash a check every week and have the title "pastor"...yet they are allowed to continue thier fraud...if only a Godly woman would step up. thats just goofy!!
God calls who He wants...and gifts us to answer His call. I do not believe God has one problem with a woman pastor, evangelist, prophet, teacher, or apostle. we do...not Him.
You know you have a good point! And why not take that even further. How dare God make us all in His image and then say less than half are even allowed to get pregnant...why not allow us all to be able to have children? I'm sure there are some men out there that want to experience being pregnant beyond having a balloon stuck under his shirt at a baby shower. Goofy?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
You know you have a good point! And why not take that even further. How dare God make us all in His image and then say less than half are even allowed to get pregnant...why not allow us all to be able to have children? I'm sure there are some men out there that want to experience being pregnant beyond having a balloon stuck under his shirt at a baby shower. Goofy?
The same can be said for male leaders. They need to be sensitive to how God created women. Men can be teachers of women but they have to understand women. It shouldn't simply be "assumed" that if a man is called by God that he is automatically able to effectively minister to women.
This sensitivity and understanding is often lacking yet women don't generally bail out of the church saying its too masculine and its geared towards men.
Personally, I don't buy this "feminization of the church" stuff among apostolic churches at all. It doesn't even make sense.
I agree, LR.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
You know you have a good point! And why not take that even further. How dare God make us all in His image and then say less than half are even allowed to get pregnant...why not allow us all to be able to have children? I'm sure there are some men out there that want to experience being pregnant beyond having a balloon stuck under his shirt at a baby shower. Goofy?
apples and airplanes. the image of God has nothing to do with who can get pregnant....thats genetics...not God.
however....it is God....and not genetics...who truely calls pastors.
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