Obama tying himself in knots with Rick Warren

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by tstew

I am trying to stop politicians from using hot-button issues to their advantage all the while secure in their knowledge that they really don't have to do much. My problem is that I am not in the position of power to directly combat this, but hundreds of "pro-life" leaders are...they just are not required to. The campaign button is sufficient.

Baron, you said that I am burying my head in the sand and not acknowledging how much has been done. What I say is that what has actually been done is disproportionate to how much is said in this area every election. It is always a key platform position for decades now, and I personally do not believe that what has actually been done is proportionate to the support that many politicians have received primarily based on this issue...And I feel that hundreds of thousands of souls bear this out every year.

Assuming for the sake of argument what you say is true, your solution is you will vote for those who think it is a great thing to murder children and will appoint judges who will solidify these laws for decades more.

How does that make sense in your mind?

[tstew]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Assuming for the sake of argument what you say is true, your solution is you will vote for those who think it is a great thing to murder children and will appoint judges who will solidify these laws for decades more.

How does that make sense in your mind?

No, I have never voted Democrat and have never solicited anyone to. In fact I have these same kinds of conversations with Black folk who vote Democrat as a matter of rule and have no concrete result of their support. My stance is that if we are going to make pro-life be an automatic vote getter, we should use our democratic weight much more judiciously and effectively or else it is all lip-service, propaganda, and pretty useless in real life. I wonder how many babies were murdered during our conversation...if only the Republicans had been in power.

[tstew]

I've got to run and get some work done but let me just say this. I fancy myself somewhat of a wordsmith, and I've come to realize a few things about words. Words are very paradoxical. Words are immensely powerful while at the same time utterly useless. I am no longer impressed by what anyone says. The old adage that actions speaks louder than words has dissapeared from the public consciousness (and from churches, but that's another whole story). The irony for me is that many people who criticize Obama supporters for being swayed by words, have actually themselves been doing so for decades.
It is simply not enough for me anymore for someone to say that they are pro-life. What are you going to do about abortion if you want my moral vote. Otherwise don't even talk about it.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by tstew

No, I have never voted Democrat and have never solicited anyone to. In fact I have these same kinds of conversations with Black folk who vote Democrat as a matter of rule and have no concrete result of their support. My stance is that if we are going to make pro-life be an automatic vote getter, we should use our democratic weight much more judiciously and effectively or else it is all lip-service, propaganda, and pretty useless in real life. I wonder how many babies were murdered during our conversation...if only the Republicans had been in power.

I understand what you are saying, but if you will look at the facts honestly I think you will see that you are wrong on abortion and the Republicans.

1. We got in the fight late, which means we had a lot of ground to make up in terms of educating voters and reversing laws.

2. From the national level we have done all that we can until we have another justice on the court, legislation banning abortion would be shot down by the SC at this point in time.

3. A lot is being done on the state level, where most Republicans believe this issue should be decided anyway (federalism).

Now if you want to take the Republicans to task do it where they have blown it...SPENDING.

[OnenessWoman]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

If McCain is elected you will see a swing in the court that will amaze you. With 4 and 1/2 justices we are making headway, just think what we could do with 5 or 6 to undo the damage that has been done. I know I have said this before but Jay Sekulow says this all the time, "All you have to do to win at the Supreme Court is count to 5."

Brennan used to ask his law clerks what the most important law was at the Supreme Court.

The answer was "Five."


I have read that they thought had it with O'Connor because she said she not personally believe in abortion, but left out that she did not think the government should outlaw it.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Rico

You guys have very hypocrital viewpoints. You go on and on about protecting the lives of the unborn, and then balk at the idea of that baby being guaranteed healthcare by the government.

There are so many falsehoods in this one sentence, I have to keep from laughing.

I balk at the government guaranteeing anything. The falicy here is that the government can provide anything efficiently using money taken from people who are the hardest workers. The second lie is that baby's do not get health care. Newsflash, they do, any baby anywhere, regardless if they have money or not.

You criticize socialism when it doesn't take a whole of Bible reading to see that God instituted socialistic requirements of the people of Israel.

Explain

It's like you want to agree with God's principles, but you also want to pick and choose which of those principles are convenient for you. It doesn't cost you anything to be pro-life, so you back that principle, but supporting welfare and other programs that will cost you money are a different story.

Vomit. You are talking about the two choices and situations YOU chose. This is so transparent, you think you are creating some deep paradox relating to money, but this is a non-sequitor. One does not relate to the other. I am amazed you are not convicted sitting there in your recliner during the day eating government cheese sandwiches, taking the money I earned, the money I took risks for, the money I worked for. Shame on you I am not angry because welfare costs me money, I am angry because you feel you are entitled to it...oh yea, you have a cheeto stuck in your nose...

I'm getting so tired of this merry go 'round with y'all it isn't funny. Don't give some lame excuse that you are supporting righteousness, because you only support the kind of righteousness that doesn't cost you anything.

Just because you say it doesn't cost us anything doesn't make it so. I have WORK ETHIC and that costs me, it costs me relaxation, and deprives me from knowing what is going on on General Hospital, it costs me because I can't be like you and get 11 hours of sleep a night.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by tstew

I've got to run and get some work done but let me just say this. I fancy myself somewhat of a wordsmith, and I've come to realize a few things about words. Words are very paradoxical. Words are immensely powerful while at the same time utterly useless. I am no longer impressed by what anyone says. The old adage that actions speaks louder than words has dissapeared from the public consciousness (and from churches, but that's another whole story). The irony for me is that many people who criticize Obama supporters for being swayed by words, have actually themselves been doing so for decades.
It is simply not enough for me anymore for someone to say that they are pro-life. What are you going to do about abortion if you want my moral vote. Otherwise don't even talk about it.

Liberals are so easily impressed by a fancy shell, because they don't have to care that it is filled with air.

Liberals don't believe anything has an underbelly, everything is...floaty, and light, and pretty, and....ultimately fake.

[tstew]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Liberals are so easily impressed by a fancy shell, because they don't have to care that it is filled with air.

Liberals don't believe anything has an underbelly, everything is...floaty, and light, and pretty, and....ultimately fake.

Brother, I tend to agree, but I know many conservatives and ultra-conservatives who are as easily impressed by fancy shells. I know many for whom the shell is all that matters. Substance, balance, honesty, and objectivity are what is missing for a lot of people on both extremes.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

There are so many falsehoods in this one sentence, I have to keep from laughing.

I balk at the government guaranteeing anything. The falicy here is that the government can provide anything efficiently using money taken from people who are the hardest workers. The second lie is that baby's do not get health care. Newsflash, they do, any baby anywhere, regardless if they have money or not.



Explain



Vomit. You are talking about the two choices and situations YOU chose. This is so transparent, you think you are creating some deep paradox relating to money, but this is a non-sequitor. One does not relate to the other. I am amazed you are not convicted sitting there in your recliner during the day eating government cheese sandwiches, taking the money I earned, the money I took risks for, the money I worked for. Shame on you I am not angry because welfare costs me money, I am angry because you feel you are entitled to it...oh yea, you have a cheeto stuck in your nose...



Just because you say it doesn't cost us anything doesn't make it so. I have WORK ETHIC and that costs me, it costs me relaxation, and deprives me from knowing what is going on on General Hospital, it costs me because I can't be like you and get 11 hours of sleep a night.

Yo, Carpo, I sit in my office chair and post in between phone calls I take for my work from home job. Get your facts straight before you start shooting off at the mouth about things you know nothing about.

[Dora]

Have you heard the sound loop they played on Laura Ingraham and Rush where Obama hems and haws and uhs and ers for 8 minutes? Amazing.