I know projection is a defense mechanism we all use, yours truly, not to accept responsibility done wrong ... and yes ... in the full scope of things it was warring tribes that often sold slaves to slave traders ... but to minimize what happened in between ... and to place the onus on blacks for somehow making slavery happen IS TWISTED AND DISTORTED .... and that a white man freed him ... is well ....not coherent in this poster's mind.
I'm not placing the "onus" on blacks for making slavery happen, at least, not in the sense that the slaves themselves orchestrated their own bondage. However, it is equally distorted to say that Africans were not involved in the bondage of their own people. The white man DID essentially free the black man from slavery (in the US) and many black men (and women) fought for their own freedom as well.
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This was a tragedy we allowed to happen ... our forefathers participated in it ... our Presidents or Congressional leaders owned ... abused ... and even slept w/ their slaves.
Agreed.
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It is what it is ...
It was what it was.
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We stopped importing slaves in 1807 ... yet for 60 years we bred them w/ no regard to human dignity.
We? Not all states, and not all white men owned slaves, even those who had the means to. I think that is an important point to make, since it seems that the assumption is...that ALL white men (with means) owned slaves, which is not the case at all. A second erroneous assumption is that all slave owners abused their slaves, although of course, slavery in and of itself is an abuse. (By abuse, I mean physically or sexually) The abuse of power is present, no matter how kind the "master."
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No one is looking to inculcate "white guilt" ... but let's look at what it was for what it was ... not pass the buck ... or point a finger.
Or minimalize.
Let's not extrapolate a thread about inappropriate song choices into a thread meant to inculcate "white guilt." Or minimize the flamboyantly bad etiquette on the part of a singer who knew better.
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It was hatred and racism that perpetuated this ... even in our churches and by preachers ....and it permeated well into the last century in our laws and behaviors ... and in many ways still does.
It's a blemish that still affects us today. It has taken time to turn the page from this horrific reality.
Then let's turn the page. PLEASE stop substituting black culture for American culture, as if one supercedes the other, or as if American culture excludes black culture, when in fact, it has effectively accepted it.
Please don't trample on sacred American tradition and symbolism in an attempt to make a political and racially charged statement about freedom that has already been achieved.
And please don't minimize the offense I take when someone mangles a song meant to symbolize freedom to EVERYONE, black, white or indifferent.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
oh, by the way, great dialoge. We need to discuss some things out in the open. I don't mean to be ugly, but there is alot of problems for African Americans, but at the same time, when I see (the latest) a commercial for a show called "what is is to be black in America", I cringe and roll my eyes. What if we had a programe on tv about "What's it's like to be white in America."? Oh, that would go over real great..yeah.
And cnesttx, I believe that.It is sad. It does still happen today. Are they older women? The older generation still had ideals and patterns ingrained into them. It goes both sides though too.
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Rom.8:38,39-For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither heigth nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to seperate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It does ... but when one has been in the position of power ... with literally the power of life and death ... it's easy not to empathize ...
Like its easy to say you would die for your country, even when you've never been in the position to do so?
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These wounds run deep ... we're talking over 250 years of slavery and another century of segregation ... things are yet in the scheme of things ... fresh to a people who literally were stripped from what we today enjoy as God-given liberties.
Do we need to move on ... yes ... and we are ... but let's keep perspective and realize that the atrocity was real and that it's still happening in various forms.
The atrocity, as it were, is not still happening in any form, except secretly or illegally. No one in the states possesses black slaves, no one is allowed to abuse or injure someone due to their race (or for any other reason), schools have been successfully integrated (although some idiotic black leaders are trying to undo that important achievement), and equality has been established, although enforcing it takes time and effort on the part of the government.
So, the ATROCITY that WAS is no more. What IS, is minor, by comparison, and the wounds that "run deep" belong to older, more respected and respectable black men and women, who would NOT use the tactics taken on by some of today's advocates, who are more interested in personal notoriety and political power than they are in seeing to the overall wellbeing and equality of the black people.
To bring the thread back down to earth, Daniel--What was Ms. Rene trying to accomplish (in your opinion), and do you feel she succeeded?
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Then let's turn the page. PLEASE stop substituting black culture for American culture, as if one supercedes the other, or as if American culture excludes black culture, when in fact, it has effectively accepted it.
Please don't trample on sacred American tradition and symbolism in an attempt to make a political and racially charged statement about freedom that has already been achieved.
And please don't minimize the offense I take when someone mangles a song meant to symbolize freedom to EVERYONE, black, white or indifferent.
Amen!
I just wish we could call everyone that lives in America - AMERICANS! Why the double country names?
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Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
I aint mad at this lady. I am however quite sad. I get what she was trying to do. What she was attempting to say. Its a beautiful song full of patriotic hope. But sadly she failed to hit her mark and likely did more harm than good.
Some will be forced to distance from this song and the depth of meaning it holds, while others will rally to this cause and defend what she did. In the first place, she has done harm to the depth of meaning that "Lift Every Voice and Sing" holds. In the second place she has further exacerbated a feeling in the white community that white people have once again been told how they ought to feel.
You don't win friends and influence people that way. What ever her goal was, in the end, she hurt the cause of racial healing. That makes me sad.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
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