Gay Marriage Ban Overturned

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is not a good argument for allowing about 3% of the population to change our entire cultural norm or get special rights. Gays already have the same rights you and I have. They can enter into a marriage covenant with someone of the opposite sex. They often do to.

Two generations ago your statement would have sounded like this….

This is not a good argument for allowing about 3% of the population to change our entire cultural norm to get special rights. Blacks and whites already have the same rights you and I have. They can enter into a marriage covenant with someone of the same race. They often do!

It’s not about “allowing” them to change a norm. It’s about constitutionality. The state constitution of California, according to the court, doesn’t grant the state power to restrict the issuance of marriage licenses to two adults of the same gender. We are a nation of laws and due process not preference, opinion, or norms. Here in Ohio, our court couldn’t make such a ruling because our State Constitution was amended to clearly restrict “marriage” to the legal union of one man and one woman. It’s a constitutional issue. The people of California and their elected representatives can pass an Amendment to the state constitution to essentially override the court and ban gay “marriage”.

Interestingly the only way to resolve this is to have each state pass marriage amendment to their respective constitutions or pass an Amendment to the US Constitution specifying that marriage is strictly limited to one man and one woman. Sadly, no candidate appears to support the idea nor is there significant enough grass roots momentum to energize such an idea.

Until marriage is constitutionally protected on the state or federal levels there is no way to legally stop them if challenged in court.

I spend very little of my time trying to control others. We live in a free country and since we spend far more time politicking than ministering. With all the money and effort put toward politicking in our efforts to control the private lives of private citizens…how many more hospitals could have been built? Homeless shelters? Crisis Pregnancy centers? Food pantries? Clothing closets? Churches to save souls?

Jesus sent us to serve this fallen wicked people…not to control them. We are salt and light in this world, not through our efforts to govern and control…but through our being servants to our fellow man. You wanna do something about homosexuality in our country??? Volunteer at an AIDS hospice and wash the feet of dying sinners.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes, now...gonna answer the question?

Is the state of California forcing people to "gay marry"?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Rico

They are going to confront the "gay agenda" as soon as they get out in the workplace. No matter how hard people try to cover the sun with their hands, it's still there.

Very true. That’s why you’ll never hear me complain about the “homosexual agenda” in the public schools. These schools are public and that’s what’s going to happen. If I decided to send my son to a public school, I’d just really involve myself and teach him what we as Christians believe. Of course I don’t plan to send my son to a public school. Ohio has a nice voucher program and if at all possible I’ll send my son to a local private school before I’ll send them to a public school.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You know how much it costs to send a kid to a private school? In many areas it is impossible to have one parent working and the other not to stay home with the kind and home school them too. The economy does not allow it. We are mandated by law to send our kids to school and as citizens we then have the right to say what should or should not get taught to our kids.

You’re right. I agree. But the cold hard facts are that the school systems are going to engage in this kind of education on some level. So public education is at the bottom of my list as a parent. I’ve already had to give up cable TV, cable internet, and even our home telephone to make ends meet. Once I get my student loan and my care loan paid off (two years!) I’ll have quite a bit of dough comin’ in and the only real bill I’ll have is my mortgage and utilities. We’re really washed out right now and desperately trying to keep our home. So be it. But my point is that I see parents paying on two cars, with cable TV and movie channels, high speed internet, eating out nearly every night…and they say, “But we can’t afford to send Johnny to private school!” Bull. We get by on one car, no cable, no phone, no internet at home (I’m at work right now), we only eat out twice a week IF that. And let me tell you…we’d definitely do this for Noah so he could get a sound education if we have to.

Do you have kids? In the public school system? It's frustrating to a parent to have their kid come home and ask questions they were taught in schools and express that they are kinda confused. Our churches only have your kids an hour or so each week compared to the schools. The schools should be a place of learning skills to go out and be successful in the work place. Not a place to do social engineering.

Are you really OK with that?

Yes I have a son, Noah. No, the little guy isn’t in school yet. We’re getting our budget prepared and learning how our state voucher system works.

My family spends Saturday’s together. We have a sort of “family circle” where we will sit and talk about “things”. Those are the moments when we talk faith and often break open the Bible. It’s important to have these “family studies” or “family circle” times to clarify life for our children. I think that parents that leave their child’s primary education to churches and schools are a bit lazy. The home should be where foundational education is produced rather one home schools or not. That’s my opinion.

I’m against social engineering too. But guess what…I’ve learned enough to know that unless we transfer every gay person in America to Mars there will be some degree of gay agenda in the public system. It’s just the way things are. So as a Christian parent I don’t whine about it. I accept it and look to send my child elsewhere. Time and money are too limited to spend my time fighting gays and their agenda. I’ll send my child elsewhere and live on for Jesus.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Two generations ago your statement would have sounded like this….

This is not a good argument for allowing about 3% of the population to change our entire cultural norm to get special rights. Blacks and whites already have the same rights you and I have. They can enter into a marriage covenant with someone of the same race. They often do!

It’s not about “allowing” them to change a norm. It’s about constitutionality.

Yes it is about them changing the CULTURAL norm. It's about REDEFINING words...words that have had the same meaning since forever.

BTW not to long ago blacks DID NOT have the same rights as whites. They were not allowed to eat at the same place, drink from the same fountain etc etc...in our world gays can do ALL that.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Is the state of California forcing people to "gay marry"?

Can you answer the question? Let me remind you. I asked about God's judgement. You said to nations that sin or whatever and I asked about states. What about states

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

You’re right. I agree. But the cold hard facts are that the school systems are going to engage in this kind of education on some level.

The cold hard FACTS are that only happens because "we" are apathetic and do NOTHING.

There was a time when far less teens were having premarital sex....now they are told "you are gonna do it anywas so wear a condom"....and "we" say "it's gonna happen anyways, nothing we can do about it. Let's bury our heads"

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

One more thing. This is not all about legalities...special rights. They already have those rights. They can already have civil unions. IF they wanted certain rights like if a partner gets sick they can get power of attorney and other things like tht...

They argue that legally civil unions are like having different drinking fountains for whites and blacks. It goes back to the “separate but equal” issues in civil rights. Even if we disagree…that’s where they’re coming from.

This is about approval. They want the state to give official approval to them. In their deluded minds this is the course to getting ALL of us to approve them...

The state has no power to “approve” of any private institution or contract. What’s at issue is legal “recognition”. The state doesn’t approve or disapprove of a couple marrying unlawfully (for example if both are divorcees for reasons other than adultery). The state doesn’t “approve” of these unions…the state only “recognizes” them. BIG difference bro.

Now here’s where what you’re saying does come in though. Many Americans seem to think that if the state legalizes something that it’s “approved”. So on a social level of the citizen psyche people might assume it’s approved. That’s where we come in. We preach traditional values and let people know God doesn’t approve.

I heard a spokes person for one of their agenda promoting groups say how glad she was that the state (legislature and judicial) approved of gay marriage and then she thanked the good people of the state of California.....but the majority of the good people of California voted to BAN gay marriage. This shows how deluded they are and what their agenda is about. It's not about THEIR rights.

You’re cherry picking and generalizing. They do the same thing when they say all we want to do is criminalize gay people. Give me a break. Both of y’all on the extremes of each side are making life miserable for the rest of us. LOL

I know a priest who served as Dean over the Anglican Academy of Columbus. He sees it as a religious liberty issue because he feels his church should have the right to marry whoever they so choose. He argues it well from a religious liberty perspective.

You might see more scenes in the future too....a church was having a meeting and in the middle of that meeting a gay group marched in chanting and holding up signs....they were nasty and totally disruptive. They have an agenda people and that agenda is to change the landscape of the american psyche especially the church

Dude…they say the same things about us. This is like a war where neither side is willing to learn to live together and stop shooting. Both sides are going absolutely crazy and feel their side is perfectly justified. I say this battle will never be “won”. The amount of money and time it takes away from the Gospel isn’t worth it. Give them the rights they want and shut them up. Don’t want them in the school system? Take your kids to private schools or home school. This is a battle we’re not going to “win”. It’s a never ending battle that will take away from the very reason we’re hear…to reach the lost. God didn’t call us to sanctify the government. Christ called us to preach the Gospel. Satan loves the fact that hundreds of millions of dollars were donated to stop gay marriage last year while hundreds of churches shut their doors because they weren’t able to pay the bills. He loves the fact that we through hours of protest and tons of money at this…and we don’t build a single church, shelter, or hospital. Bro…here’s something that is so deep it will revolutionize your life IF you can grasp it:

The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pat-hway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

--Reinhold Niebuhr

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You on the one hand say you don't agree with gay marriage...then on the other say you disagree with using the term marriage. This is not about gay civil unions. It really IS about GAY marriages and the state recognizing LEGALLY that they are married like a man and a woman are.. It is not about rights. It is about redefining the word Marriage

I'm sorry, for not wording my opinion very well.

I have no problem with homosexual unions. I have no problem with homosexuality as a whole. I say to each their own.

However, I "dislike" the phrase "gay marriage", as by definition marriage is about a husband and a wife. I don't think its a proper term. It's a misnomer.

But I have no problem with their relationships being recognized as having the same legal rights as marriages.

[TheLayman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

One more thing. This is not all about legalities...special rights. They already have those rights. They can already have civil unions. IF they wanted certain rights like if a partner gets sick they can get power of attorney and other things like tht...

This is about approval. They want the state to give official approval to them. In their deluded minds this is the course to getting ALL of us to approve them...

I heard a spokes person for one of their agenda promoting groups say how glad she was that the state (legislature and judicial) approved of gay marriage and then she thanked the good people of the state of California.....but the majority of the good people of California voted to BAN gay marriage. This shows how deluded they are and what their agenda is about. It's not about THEIR rights.

You might see more scenes in the future too....a church was having a meeting and in the middle of that meeting a gay group marched in chanting and holding up signs....they were nasty and totally disruptive. They have an agenda people and that agenda is to change the landscape of the american psyche especially the church

Hellp Praxeas:

It goes beyond this my friend. I keep trying to tell people that the secular humanist Anti-Christ doctrine is already at war against God's people and against morality. Christians think the war is coming, but it still off in the future somewhere. Newsflash, the war has been here, it's been here for some time, and Christians have allowed themselves to be boxed into a little corner. The point is, strategically Anti-theism has the high ground and Satan isn't taking prisoners.

You see, this is a nation of laws, literally. And often, one law affects another law, and you can have a domino effect. First let me say that "gays" have no "right" to "Marry," unless of course you redefine marriage. So what the courts did in effect was redefine marriage, something the court should not do (but the danger of courts is that they can do anything they want because in that sense they are above the law, especially when you legislate from the bench).

But here's the main thing, the important thing, the real important thing. This isn't about acceptance, this is about direct warfare with "the church." You do realize that Californian has hate speech laws. How long to you think it will be before teaching that homsexuality is immoral, wrong, sinful (pick your word) is said to be hate speech by the "courts" and not protected speech. In other words, the courts are about to take away the church pulpit on this issue and start fining organizations and so forth.

Oh, those leading the "gay rights" agenda will take this one step at a time. First, they need to torpedo an amendment to the state constitution. If that is accomplished, the next move will be on two fronts. The direct frontal assault on the church: Morality vs. Hate Speech as defined by the courts. And gays will go to states where same sex marriage is legal (like California) to get married, return to their own states where the state has made it illegal and then file suit in federal court for civil rights violation and equal protection.

Folks, the anti-Theists have been waging an incredible war. They have convinced the majority of people that Atheist Materialism is actually science, seared the conscious of the majority of America into allowing mothers to "choose" to kill their own children while some stand by and say, "Can't see it from my yard, the blood isn't on my hands," congressman can mock people of faith and call them the "whackos on the Christian right," and so on.

It's about to get ugly, and it's going to be sooner rather than later. Our government is supposed to be "we the people." Better make your vote count, and make your voices heard as best you can.

Blessings,
TheLayman