Obama, Clinton. Which is the lesser of two evils?

[Moe]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Rush Limbaugh has been doing it for a while now. Its called Operation Chaos. It seems to be really having an effect too. After winning big on Super Tuesday, Obama should have wrapped up this nomination a long time ago. I think crossover Republicans voting for Hillary has helped her hang in there and prolong the fight. (Of course this Jeremiah Wright dude probably had a little something to do with it too. )

agreed!!!! You are so right.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I look at the bottom line. Some families are paying $900 a month for services (let's keep the issue un-named) on the free market. If the government can negotiate a lower monthly cost of about $90 a month based on group rates and then subsidize it with a tax increase of about $100 for the same services (for a total monthly cost of about $190 to $200 a month)...that's one tax increase that would save some families nearly $700 a month. I'm sure these families would benefit from having an extra $700 of their own money in their pockets. Yours might be one of these families.

I'm interested in why so many would disagree with the above example seeing they'd keep more of their own money in a subsidized program with negotiated costs.

Primary question:

If the tax increase for a program would save you money...why would you oppose it?

First and foremost it is not anyone else’s responsibility to pay for my health care. I don't get to pick anybody's pocket to pay for things I need that is stealing. We have chosen the pay-as-you-go-plan. If we go to the doctor we pay.

Second, those numbers are whacky. When you put people on a medical plan where they have maximum that they pay, they will run to the doctor every time they have a sniffle. The cost of providing health care will sky rocket not decrease. Other than checkups or medical releases for sports my kids have not been to a doctor in 5 years. Check your local welfare recipient and see how often their kids go to the doctor. It’s the cost of illegals and people unwilling to pay clogging up our hospitals now that is causing so much of the problem with health care prices.

Socialized health care is fine if you need a band aid, but ask all those Canadians what they are going to do when they can't come over here and pay for a major surgery, because their system says, "ooops that’s all of those we are doing this year, sign up for your transplant next year maybe we can see you then." Think how sad all those Canadians will be when they don't have a free market system to fall back on. I guess our friends south of the border won't care because we already give them free health care, free market quality at the socialist price. What a deal.

And that Ladies and Gentleman is why Obama and Hillary make John McCain the lesser of those evils.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Ferd

those in the middle disapprove because their attention span is more related to heating burritos in their microwave than it is related to understanding the nuance of fighting a protracted war against a dangerous ideology.

Indeed, many American voters are more informed and passionate about their burritos in the microwave, than about the real issues of our day.

The very fact that Obama is being treated like some kind of political Messiah is evidence of that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Honestly? If the dems had picked Joe Biden or Bill Richardson it wouldn’t matter if John McCain picked Gandhi or Jesus himself as a vice presidential candidate.

The Dems would have won hands down period. Because "Changy Change Change" is the only thing that really matters this year.

However, the Dems picked the two worst possible candidates to choose from. NOT because of their politics but because
1. Hillary has too high of negatives and is a woman
2. Obama has no valid experience and is black.

That leaves a slight door ajar depending on a couple of things.
1. If Hillary is nominated, Obama's supporters may not vote for her. He has very high support from people who have never voted before. With their hopes dashed, they might stay home.
2. If Obama is nominated, there is a chance that white working class (read Union) men in places like Penn. and Mich. just might turn their collective noses up to "the black guy" and vote for McCain.
3. We don’t know much about Obama but there is a slow trickle coming out right now.
a. Rev. Wright
b. William Aiers
c. Tony Resco
d. association with ACORN

These things can serve to make Obama look like a radical liberal with serious ethics issues.

4. Hillary has never had a likeability rating of 50%. You can’t get elected if more than half the people simply don’t like you.

5. McCain is the only Republican that "Changy Change Change" independents would be willing to vote for. They aint smart but they like McCain.

Now we get pretty far down the road.

But when it comes to the VP, it has more potential to hurt than help (see GHW Bush and Dan Quail and Walter Mondale and Geraldine Fararro.)

But a VP has to provide something.
Does McCain take the gov. of Florida? McCain cannot win the Whitehouse without Florida.
Does he find someone well liked in either Mich. or Penn? The dems cannot win without both of those states.

Does McCain have enough of a deficiency in the area of the economy that he needs a boost there?
In my opinion, I don’t think the VP candidate will have a big impact on the Republican candidate because John McCain is such a well known guy.

Ferd,
We will find out if his VP choice hurts him. Somehow, I feel that he is going to make a great choice that will help him.

Some key points I see with McCain:

McCain has been a valuable public scold on federal spending in general and pork projects in particular. He can most be trusted to expend the political capital needed to break the back of the Washington spending culture.

McCain is also a staunch free-trader. He has a record of standing his ground even when the prevailing political winds turn against him, as they are doing on free trade.

Despite his rocky relations with the right, McCain's record on their top priorities, cultural issues like abortion, is very conservative.

Voters loyal to President Bush see in McCain a man who stood firm on the Iraq war. Voters who dislike Bush see a man who criticized the president on the conduct of that war.

Conservatives remain unified on three key policy objectives: pro-growth tax policy and no-nonsense budgeting, judges who respect the constitution, and a resolve to defeat Islamic terrorists.

Overall, no matter what the media says - he is not following after Bush and defines himself. I'm sure the "maverick" Bob Dole meme will come into play on heavier levels. The difference is McCain is a very disciplined candidate in terms of delivering a message. Dole was more restraining.

Regardless of statistics, I think the American people want experience and strength especially with Iran looming. I get that from McCain. I don't see America getting that from Obama or Hillary, as we well know.

This is what I like about McCain. He speaks his mind in plain English. (lol)

On the issue of his stating we needed to stay in Iraq 100 more years, he said,
“We trust the American people to be able to figure this out. We don’t think the American people are stupid. Do you think they are stupid?”

And on berating Obama for not voting for Chief Justice Roberts, whom Hillary didn't vote for either.

"Apparently, nobody quite fits the bill except for an elite group of activist judges, lawyers, and law professors who think they know wisdom when they see it, and they see it only in each other," McCain said.

That would be McCain. I can't help but like the man. lol

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Ferd,
We will find out if his VP choice hurts him. Somehow, I feel that he is going to make a great choice that will help him.

I think Fla. governor Charlie Crist will be a good choice.
He's well regarded in the Republican party, he's relatively young (51), and he can help deliver the state of Fla to the party in November . <---This of course is critical, since Fl has so many electoral college votes.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I think Fla. governor Charlie Crist will be a good choice.
He's well regarded in the Republican party, he's relatively young (51), and he can help deliver the state of Fla to the party in November . <---This of course is critical, since Fl has so many electoral college votes.

Good age and yes, I've heard that is a possibility, but not a lot of talk. I know he is popular and well received in Florida. I think they want to keep the campaign focused on the bruising of Hillary and Obama.



BTW, as far as age goes, McCain is in the same bracket as most of the Supreme Court Justices. So what's the big deal?

[tamor]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Good age and yes, I've heard that is a possibility, but not a lot of talk. I know he is popular and well received in Florida. I think they want to keep the campaign focused on the bruising of Hillary and Obama.



BTW, as far as age goes, McCain is in the same bracket as most of the Supreme Court Justices. So what's the big deal?

Hey, look at the age of the queen. And how old Prince Charles will be by the time he takes the throne!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by tamor

Hey, look at the age of the queen. And how old Prince Charles will be by the time he takes the throne!

Good points!!!!

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Indeed, many American voters are more informed and passionate about their burritos in the microwave, than about the real issues of our day.

The very fact that Obama is being treated like some kind of political Messiah is evidence of that.

amen to that bro, they just want mama to take care of them, lol, enough, grow up and take care of yourself, lol,dt

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

amen to that bro, they just want mama to take care of them, lol, enough, grow up and take care of yourself, lol,dt

Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!