need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching

Krt · #1 06-28-2010, 06:30 PM

not sure where to post this... i have seen other posts about upci and not sure if anyone in one has talked about this somewhere else...

I need to know if anyone else has felt like this... and I mention upci because its all I've been to. I don't know if its just me (maybe I am just spiritually attacked and taking it the wrong way & condemning myself?) but even the other nite I listened to preaching online... it was called the sin of silence...

I feel like most of the messages I hear I leave feeling discouraged, that I am never doing enough, that I can't live up to it...

I also want to bring up I was seeing a christian counselor last yr (not in our organization) and he was trying to tell me my identity in christ... I don't know how to say this... I know we are talking about the same God but it was like I wanted to know his God, he had a loving God and the God I have come to know is just always saying its never enough... Other people in my church seem happy and not feeling this way so am I just beating myself up?

the thing is too, if the church would talk of His acceptance and love for me I would want to do so much more and would walk with so much more joy rather than feel defeated. I'm actually like that on my job too, where if they say positive feedback I tend to want to work hard and vice versa...

Does anyone know what messages I am talking about? Am I taking it to heart too much/ the wrong way...
I just want to know who He is and not be confused... I read in another post someone put it so well, the feeling like you aren't living up to it.. and never good enough...

Krt · #2 06-28-2010, 06:41 PM

I found it but don't know how to do the quote into another thread... it is SeekingOne answering Mirth1981 in the thread To those that have left UPC and she explains the frustration in this how I feel now...

6) How is your walk with God now?

Much better! The church I attend preaches the benefits of living for Jesus and sharing the love of Jesus with others. Interesting how focusing on Jesus and all He did, being grateful, and sharing all this with people who don't know Him causes me to actually focus more time on Jesus!

There is peace, happiness and joy where there used to be frustration and fear of "messing up" all the time. I don't focus on keeping my salvation and "making all the way to the end" now. Funny though, I WILL make it "all the way to the end" now because my focus IS on HIM instead of church.

Apocrypha · #3 06-28-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krt

not sure where to post this... i have seen other posts about upci and not sure if anyone in one has talked about this somewhere else...

I need to know if anyone else has felt like this... and I mention upci because its all I've been to. I don't know if its just me (maybe I am just spiritually attacked and taking it the wrong way & condemning myself?) but even the other nite I listened to preaching online... it was called the sin of silence...

I feel like most of the messages I hear I leave feeling discouraged, that I am never doing enough, that I can't live up to it...

I also want to bring up I was seeing a christian counselor last yr (not in our organization) and he was trying to tell me my identity in christ... I don't know how to say this... I know we are talking about the same God but it was like I wanted to know his God, he had a loving God and the God I have come to know is just always saying its never enough... Other people in my church seem happy and not feeling this way so am I just beating myself up?

the thing is too, if the church would talk of His acceptance and love for me I would want to do so much more and would walk with so much more joy rather than feel defeated. I'm actually like that on my job too, where if they say positive feedback I tend to want to work hard and vice versa...

Does anyone know what messages I am talking about? Am I taking it to heart too much/ the wrong way...
I just want to know who He is and not be confused... I read in another post someone put it so well, the feeling like you aren't living up to it.. and never good enough...

Its because of one word that has multiple translations in English. That word is hagiazo: ἁγιάζω. The word is at times used by the translators as holiness (which in the bible is a state of being or something set aside as clean for God) and at other times it is used as sanctification, which is a process.

What you are describing is something that nearly every UPCI member feels at sometime or another. They sadly discover in daily living that they cannot get to a special state with God where they feel 100% pure/clean/holy no matter how much they try. They look at the preachers who put on a good show of it, or the super saints who seem to have found happiness... but you yourself struggle to make it real like that from your perspective.

That is where grace and the sanctification process come in. What you need to do more than anything is understand the biblical meaning of the word grace. Not the "believe one time and your saved forever" usage of grace... which cheapens it... but the active forgiveness, love and favor of god as you grow and become closer to his ideal for you over time (the sanctification process).

The problem is that you have the perception that you have not achieved a state of holiness and you have failed God in some way. The truth is that God is working a process in you, and as long as you are in active relationship with him and continuing to renew yourself daily in action, prayer, and mindset... you are in effect sanctified, justified and made holy through that relationship where you receive Gods grace and love.

Dedicated Mind · #4 06-28-2010, 06:56 PM

good words apocrypha

Apocrypha · #5 06-28-2010, 06:59 PM

Also try to listen to some other preachers outside our ranks. There are many solid messages by folks like Leonard Ravenhill, Ray Comfort, and the entire bible verse by verse by Chuck Smith. The apostolic preachers have a very specific style and slant in the way they approach things. They use a topical style that is typically light on scripture and heavy on subjective emotional trigger points to juice a crowd. These are the guys I like to listen to.

http://www.calvarychapel.com/index.p...id=1&Itemid=54

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/m...wcat.php?cid=5

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/m...wcat.php?cid=1

Mirth1981 · #6 06-28-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Its because of one word that has multiple translations in English. That word is hagiazo: ἁγιάζω. The word is at times used by the translators as holiness (which in the bible is a state of being or something set aside as clean for God) and at other times it is used as sanctification, which is a process.

What you are describing is something that nearly every UPCI feels at sometime. They figure out that they cannot get to a special state with God where they feel 100% pure/clean/holy no matter how much they try. They look at the preachers who put on a good show of it, or the super saints who seem to have found happiness... but you yourself struggle to make it real like that from your perspective.

That is where grace and the sanctification process come in. What you need to do more than anything is understand the biblical meaning of the word grace. Not the "believe one time and your saved forever" usage of grace... which cheapens it... but the active forgiveness, love and favor of god as you grow and become closer to his ideal for you over time (the sanctification process).

The problem is that you have the perception that you have not achieved a state of holiness and you have failed God in some way. The truth is that God is working a process in you, and as long as you are in active relationship with him and continuing to renew yourself daily in action, prayer, and mindset... you are in effect sanctified, justified and made holy through that relationship where you receive Gods grace and love.

Great words!

Apocrypha · #7 06-28-2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Great words!

Took me years of struggle talking to many elder pastors and bible scholars, and studing dozens and dozens of books to simplify it to that point.

I struggled so much out of bible college it wasn't funny. After years of hyped up preaching about reaching some magical spiritual state so God could use me I felt so far from that fictional ideal that I almost quit.

SeekingOne · #8 06-28-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

The problem is that you have the perception that you have not achieved a state of holiness and you have failed God in some way. The truth is that God is working a process in you, and as long as you are in active relationship with him and continuing to renew yourself daily in action, prayer, and mindset... you are in effect sanctified, justified and made holy through that relationship where you receive Gods grace and love.

Focus on scripture alone, focus on your relationship with Jesus and His love for you. Then go into all the world, that you have access to, and share the true love of Jesus. Wow, will you feel GOOD! And WOW will the people you share Jesus with feel good too.

I am telling you that when Jesus, not some set of rules, is your focus you will be smiling all the day long.

pelathais · #9 06-28-2010, 07:13 PM

Hi Krt. I think I know what you're talking about. The UPC has an unfortunate aspect to its culture whereby most of the "motivation" is worded in terms such as, "... because you're going to hell if you don't!" I spent most of my life living with these negative sour-pusses and it took its toll.

Fortunately, there are some oases in the UPC and other Oneness Pentecostal fellowships and more are springing up all the time. Sadly, the pharisees still wield most of the control.

I posted the following on another thread - http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...538#post927538 . Maybe this might help you to see that your "identity in Christ" isn't based upon what YOU do - it's based upon what Christ has already done.

I sometimes would face the greatest opposition whenever I preached this in the UPC, other times folks would shout and run the aisles. There's just a real heavy spirit of oppression that has its hold on the UPC fellowship still. As more and more of us begin to see just who were are IN CHRIST, that bad old spirit will continue to loose its grip.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Under the Law, God made His people holy by sanctifying them with His commandments.

Exodus 31:13; Leviticus 20:8; Leviticus 21:8 and Leviticus 22:9.

This, however, failed to make the people "perfect" or complete (Hebrews 7:19). Knowing of this obvious human shortcoming, God at the same time instituted the sin offerings and other sacrifices of atonement. Again however, following these ordinances (or "rules" along with their "dress codes" and all) failed to bring the people to God.

See Hebrews 9:8-10

And so, even as the prophets had declared would happen (Jeremiah 24:7, Jeremiah 32:39-40; Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 36:26-27 and Joel 2:21-32) God promised to do something different. Instead of making His people holy by telling them what to do, He makes them holy by filling them with His Spirit and changing the things that they want to do.

See Acts 20:32; 1 Thessalonians 3:11-13, 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 2:9-18; 1 Peter 1:2; Jude 1:1.

We are made holy and set apart for service by God in a manner similar to the way Moses anointed and sanctified the vessels, furniture and the priests for service in the Sanctuary - Exodus 40:9-16.

See Hebrews 9:11-28 for an example of how Jesus assumes this role and where we are the vessels and priests.

Jesus Christ redeems his vessels that were plundered by sin. He washes them and sanctifies them; making them holy by His selection and His act of atonement.

We are simply those vessels He has cleansed. That's what makes us holy. Not "ordinances," "rules" or "dress codes." Jesus makes us holy.

It is the Holy Spirit and the works completed at Calvary and the tomb that make us holy, not the works that we do ourselves (Titus 3:5). We do what we do as Christians because we are holy (Romans 12:1).

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BeenThinkin · #10 06-28-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Its because of one word that has multiple translations in English. That word is hagiazo: ἁγιάζω. The word is at times used by the translators as holiness (which in the bible is a state of being or something set aside as clean for God) and at other times it is used as sanctification, which is a process.

What you are describing is something that nearly every UPCI member feels at sometime or another. They sadly discover in daily living that they cannot get to a special state with God where they feel 100% pure/clean/holy no matter how much they try. They look at the preachers who put on a good show of it, or the super saints who seem to have found happiness... but you yourself struggle to make it real like that from your perspective.

That is where grace and the sanctification process come in. What you need to do more than anything is understand the biblical meaning of the word grace. Not the "believe one time and your saved forever" usage of grace... which cheapens it... but the active forgiveness, love and favor of god as you grow and become closer to his ideal for you over time (the sanctification process).

The problem is that you have the perception that you have not achieved a state of holiness and you have failed God in some way. The truth is that God is working a process in you, and as long as you are in active relationship with him and continuing to renew yourself daily in action, prayer, and mindset... you are in effect sanctified, justified and made holy through that relationship where you receive Gods grace and love.

Great words of wisdom, Apocrypha!

Been Thinkin