God's Grace, Love or Mercy will not SAVE you ...

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I'm not arguing that grace isn't involved throughout a persons life.. But there is a difference between a general peovisional grace that God grants to all mankind, and grace that brings salvation. The drawing of God does just that, it draws, but the drawing doesn't save unless the individual chooses to yield to that drawing in complete submission. The grace of God alone provided the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. While the blood has the ability to save every human that has ever existed, it can only save those who willingly and fully submit to the gospel. Saving grace is only availalbe through faith. While the love of God has provided a means of salvation, the love of God alone does not and cannot save. By Grace THROUGH FAITH. The Grace part is God's responsibility... The FAITH part is ours.

Can you support this with any scripture?

How about this scripture below?

Ephesians 1:3-6
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

John 6:37–39
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has

2 Timothy 2:11–13 (ESV)
11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—for he cannot deny himself. Funny, I can't find any scripture that says, "if I am not baptized or speak in tongues I have denied God.


Remember, obedience is always required but it is obedience out of a new heart and a life with God. You can obey all you want but until you have true faith all your obedience is nothing. The issues here is that a certain group of people consider "their doctrine" to be the obedience that saves instead of faith in Christ's obedience.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Can you support this with any scripture?

How about this scripture below?

Ephesians 1:3-6
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

John 6:37–39
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has

2 Timothy 2:11–13 (ESV)
11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—for he cannot deny himself. Funny, I can't find any scripture that says, "if I am not baptized or speak in tongues I have denied God.


Remember, obedience is always required but it is obedience out of a new heart and a life with God. You can obey all you want but until you have true faith all your obedience is nothing. The issues here is that a certain group of people consider "their doctrine" to be the obedience that saves instead of faith in Christ's obedience.

hmmm even you say it is a command yet you deny that is you don't do the command you are not denying God? uuuuuhhhh

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Love is great and should be showed to all. What you are pushing is sloppy, stupid, enabling love though. Liek the parent who continues to enable the lazy non-working kid by paying their bills. Or the spouse who enables the drug addict spouse. You promote a sickening version of "love" and grace whereby we never say enough is enough and demand change from the child.

I have an older brother who my mother loved dearly. However, when he becamse increasingly involved in drugs and being an abusive husband to his wife, my mother cut him off almost completely. She loved him, but would not tolerate his lifestyle as long as he refused to change. When he began to straighten his life out, she opened the door to him.

Even with the prodigal it required a turn around. The father didn't go to the city to look for the kid. He waited for the kid to make his way home.

God is not only love. He is also jealousy and a consuming fire. He is called terrible at times. He shows his wratha nd anger towards those who disobey and mock Him.

You leave out many facets of what and who God is in order to maintain your emotional based view of how lovy dovy and wimpy God must be to fit your soft theology on sin.

Jesus left the 99 for 1. He also came to this world, we didn't go to his. He is seeking to save those that are lost. God's love is reaching, not witholding as you claim. And, how do you know the father never went to look for his son? I would go look for mine. Maybe you wouldn't.

Your love would stone the adulterous woman that was cast down as Jesus' feet. Your love would take your servant by the throat for 44 dollars, even after God had forgiven you of millions.

I've sat under different ministers for over 3 decades and I've been pastoring for 14 years. The fear monger preaching destroys, bringing a hopeless end to the true Christian walk. It also feeds those who bind people through the power of manipulation.

If you could only see your spirit through your words. Your heartless approach to people who fail, and struggle deeply in this life is more than evident. Your robe of self righteous appeal is beyond sad, bringing people down, not up.

My approach and understanding of God's love is not what you claim. My 30 year marriage has not stayed together with the love you're talking about. I have 3 grown children and 6 grandkids, and I'm so grateful that my kids love their father and mother. They've been through many difficult times and I've stuck by them through thick and thin. They are great kids, and love has kept our family together.

I truly see your response as one that lacks experience. The young will boast and chide with their supposable knowledge about God, but time is the greatest revelator. Trials always humble us and bring about a more compassionate spirit in us.

If you're not young, you speak as someone that is.


1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

hmmm even you say it is a command yet you deny that is you don't do the command you are not denying God? uuuuuhhhh

I don't believe speaking in tongues is a command.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I don't believe speaking in tongues is a command.

Well said. It's not. There is no where that it was once commanded!

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I don't believe speaking in tongues is a command.

I was referring to baptism as you used both as the same argument. It's still contradictive to your opinion. Also correct itis not commanded and there is a reason why. I can't command myself to speak in tongues that is God's work in me.