This talk of not understanding why someone would be worried about what someone else wears or being offended or feeling out of place because they were not dressed as fancy as the others has me thinking back.
My mother could not really afford to buy me the expensive clothes that a lot of kids wore. I did not have the brand name shoes, the silk ties, the latest guys fashions, etc. My father left when I was 12 and she had to do what she could to support us. She paid her tithes and offerings, paid the bills, bought groceries, and what was left was used for gas in the car for her to get to and from work and MAYBE for us to have something we wanted, if our needs were met. I was a kid and never gave thought to these things really. I liked to dress nice and look good. ALL the kids wore suits, we were taught to. All of them had 4 or 5 suits apiece. I knew most of the kids in our group really well and know I am speaking truth and not stretching it. There were some who did not have the means to buy 4 and 5 suits and I know a few years they did not go to camp because of it.
Were we ever told we HAD to wear them every night? NO. Were we ever told we HAD to wear a different one every night? NO. This all came out of the WAY IT WAS DONE. The ones who were IMPORTANT did it so if you wanted to be IMPORTANT and ACCEPTED you did it.
This is it.. it is because it is the way it is done... they just want acceptance... so they conform so they fit in. It doesn't matter the culture or the circumstances.... it is all about being accepted.
Problem is, we have put God into this and made it part of who he is... and unfortunately that is all some can see among us.
I understand how you were raised by a single mom. Thanks for sharing. I am a single mom and my girls have been brought up so differently than I was raised. We spent hours in goodwills trying to scrape together 5 nice outfits for camp to fit in....or accessories to update things they already had. People would give things or pass things down. I always did my best to help them fit in.
I was raised going to the mall with an American Express card of my parents to buy all my nice clothes. I had completely paid trips to every conference at the district and national level. Given a car at 16 and traveled all over the state to every youth function there was. I look back and my dad must have been an endless supply of money as I didn't work. Dressed completely in fashion to keep up with the culture. All my friends were pentecostals or other preachers kids. I grew up so proud of my 4th generation PK status... often felt sorry for others not so advantaged and had compassion on the lost, but viewed them beneath me.
I've spent much time over the last year or so repenting for my snobbish self.. as I draw closer to God, he shows me just exactly what I was... and even still what I am. That is the true power of the Holy Ghost... leading and guiding in all truth...and righteousness.... otherwise, however could I know where I needed to purge myself of things not like him so I can draw closer still.
I think this is a very valid point, and something to think about. I don't necessarily think this is so much about dressing up, though, as just the whole Pentecostal culture. It can feel very exclusive.
It *is* exclusive.
I don't go to a Pentecostal church because I know I wouldn't fit in. And it's not clothes necessarily, it's definitely the culture.
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You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
So MissB and PO you can wear your dress up clothes to our church just allow us to dress casual at yours. =) Alex, I may not be as conservative in style as you would like but allow me to be me and I will allow you to be you. =)
When you are all dressed up just be sure to still worship with the one who can not dress as nice and vice versa.
sorry I rambled so long
Thank you for your post. I do always enjoy reading what you have to say!
In light of the majority of posts on this thread and the ongoing conversation on this forum, I pose the same to you - "You can wear your casual dress, but allow us our dress up clothes". It goes both ways.
I want to point out that not every person in our church dresses up. They are not required to. Not everyone on our platform wears suits and ties. It's not required and our bass player is one person that will not wear a suit. Our drummers take their jackets off because it's easier to play without them. Sometimes they don't wear jackets at all. That is fine with everyone. We do not care. Some of our ladies dress casual every service - we are fine with that! Anyone that comes to our church will fit in as we have both - casual and dress up and mainly they will feel comfortable because the atmosphere gives you freedom to worship the Lord anyway you feel! That is the main thing!
I do not purchase expensive handbags (D&B, etc.) because I don't care. I do purchase leather because it's more sensible for me. Leather just wears better.
I think it's divisive and hypocritical of any of us, and I am including myself, to judge each other by our clothing. There is no one here that has never made mistakes, has a perfect church, perfect thoughts, perfect life, perfect anything and so to point fingers at each other or any organization is ridiculous, shallow, and shortsighted. If anyone is still talking about something that you left - you are not over it - plain and simple.
Okay, I am taking a break as now we are in a hole that we dig from time to time - over and over and it really is annoying. I'm only annoyed that it annoys me.
Or what if we all just dressed in the way that we prefer?
How about exercising grace, and allowing people to be themselves?
I agree that some of our hairstyles and dress is way over the top, and honestly opens us up for ridicule. Some of the huge, elaborate hairdos just look plain silly, imo. But, if someone wants to wear them, it's their choice. Why are we always trying to mandate things?
I don't think fancy clothes or suits should be required, neither should they be condemned.
How about letting God's children hear from Him themselves, and live in freedom, instead of all of us feeling like we have to conform to one mold?
Excellent points.
In addition, he mentioned expensive clothing...but how does he know it's expensive? I buy nice department clothes from Goodwill all the time, some even with tags still on them. I wouldn't buy them for that price originally, but I will from Goodwill! I look nice, and sometimes what I'm wearing cost over $200 originally, but I spent less than $10 for it!
When Peter and Paul spoke about costly array and such, they were speaking to individuals to judge themselves, not for us to judge one another, yet that seems to be what we do.
We need to take our eyes off other people and be only concerned with what we see in the mirror.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Nope- not their choice, if they want to follow GOD, for they are purchased with a price. We are commanded against "the putting on of apparel", and extravagance shows pride.
-Bro. Alex
I don't know what box you live in, but pride has nothing to do with clothing! It's a heart matter. Someone doesn't need nice clothes on to have pride in their hearts!! And just because someone looks nice doesn't mean they have pride in their hearts!
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
If anyone is still talking about something that you left - you are not over it - plain and simple.
Okay, I am taking a break as now we are in a hole that we dig from time to time - over and over and it really is annoying. I'm only annoyed that it annoys me.
I'm so sorry you are annoyed. Why should I or others not be able to voice opinions? Is that not what this forum is for?
I will be 42 on Friday...I was raised in and mentally conditioned for over 40 + years and I will be the first to tell you I am not over it. I have been attending a non UPC church for three months. You really think that I would be able to not discuss things happening with me... or what I do see from a standpoint now that I have stepped back?
My immediate family (siblings) don't seem to have a problem or where I have faced attitudes... they know my life... they know how very little changes have been made in outward appearance in me. I have convictions and always will.
Surprisingly, it has been others I used to attend church with, and what I thought was friends online who can't seem to accept me now or what I have to say. I find myself followed even on this forum...trying to post in correction.... those who really have no clue about my personal life seem bothered. I just pray for them.
I do not hate the upc... I pray for a move and revival among the people....
Easter Sunday will find me at my church Sun Morn... and at UPC church Sunday night. On average 1-2 Sunday evenings out of the month I go back and attend with family. I love them, and when I can, I will be there to worship with them... I just choose not to be part of the culture anymore.
I'm so sorry you are annoyed. Why should I or others not be able to voice opinions? Is that not what this forum is for?
I will be 42 on Friday...I was raised in and mentally conditioned for over 40 + years and I will be the first to tell you I am not over it. I have been attending a non UPC church for three months. You really think that I would be able to not discuss things happening with me... or what I do see from a standpoint now that I have stepped back?
My immediate family (siblings) don't seem to have a problem or where I have faced attitudes... they know my life... they know how very little changes have been made in outward appearance in me. I have convictions and always will.
Surprisingly, it has been others I used to attend church with, and what I thought was friends online who can't seem to accept me now or what I have to say. I find myself followed even on this forum...trying to post in correction.... those who really have no clue about my personal life seem bothered. I just pray for them.
I do not hate the upc... I actually pray and fast on a regular basis for a move and revival among the people....
Easter Sunday will find me at my church Sun Morn... and at UPC church Sunday night. On average 1-2 Sunday evenings out of the month I go back and attend with family. I love them, and when I can, I will be there to worship with them... I just choose not to be part of the culture anymore.
I see that you deleted your earlier post (152) that said you were "so over it".
And I see that you are not over it, as you have stated here.
If you were a snotty PK kid and looked down your nose at everyone then that it is yours to deal with - you say you have. It was your heart that was wrong. I don't see why you want to blame a whole constituency on your heart or those you ran with that had the same mindset. Yes, I've known a few - the entitlement mentality.
You seem as you grew older and didn't have your father's money you became angry you couldn't be the person you were, so you settled on not having any of it. Just my observation.
The reason I am annoyed is because, as I've said before, I wasn't raised in the UPC and saw all the same competition, arrogance, snobbery, etc. in other church organizations (Baptist, etc.) and secular society that you seem to think only belongs to the UPCI. I find that unfortunate and shortsighted of you.
The other reason I find it annoying is because it creates disunity in the Body of Christ and if we have been hurt and God has been good to us - forgiven us for sins, mistakes, etc., to continue sucking our thumbs over something is a total waste of time and does nothing but find other people who want to suck thumbs with you. The disenfranchised can say, "Wow, I found a place of like minded people." Whoopie do! I don't find healing and progression in that.
This is my observation and opinion. And being that you have stated it's a place to post our thoughts and opinions, this is mine - all bottled up and uncorked! And now that I am totally immersed in annoyance, this will be my last post on this subject. Just wanted to explain where I am coming from, my observations and my point of view -for all it's worth. I'm intelligent enough to know it means nothing to anyone but myself.
PO-- while I agree with some of what you've saying, please don't be hard on Lisa. Until you've been there, you can't imagine the emotions you go through when you leave the thing you've been raised in all your life, especially when you've been taught that leaving will basically mean you won't be saved. It's hard to go against the trend and step out into something new, no matter what it is. But when it concerns eternity, and the eternity of your children, it's really hard. You have to KNOW THAT YOU KNOW that it's the right decision, and that only comes with much prayer and fasting.
But once you've made that choice, it doesn't mean that a piece of your heart doesn't remain with the ones that you've left. UPC is so much a part of who I am, because they are the ones who introduced me to the power of God and brought me to salvation. I will always honor them for that. But that doesn't mean that I am going to agree with them on many things. Some people think that I don't have a right to speak up about anything in the organization since I've left, but I don't see it that way. There's still alot of my heart that is connected. And I guess that's why lots of us hang out on these forums.
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