Is God Free to Not Chose to Love and Save All...?

crakjak · #1 03-29-2007, 09:00 PM

....or, is He constrained by the very nature of His being, is God bound to love and save all?

If God loves you and desires the very best for you, how could sending your children, parents or other loved ones to "endless torment" or extermination, be consistent with loving and desiring the best for you?? Will He not instead by His love and power bring all your loved ones to salvation as well?

Is wiping your memory of your loved ones loving? Why instead wouldn't God simply continue pursuing your loved ones until they surrender to His irresistible love.

#2 03-29-2007, 09:11 PM

Something to think about.......

mizpeh · #3 03-29-2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

....or, is He constrained by the very nature of His being, is God bound to love and save all?

If God loves you and desires the very best for you, how could sending your children, parents or other loved ones to "endless torment" or extermination, be consistent with loving and desiring the best for you?? Will He not instead by His love and power bring all your loved ones to salvation as well?

Is wiping your memory of your loved ones loving? Why instead wouldn't God simply continue pursuing your loved ones until they surrender to His irresistible love.

Did you know Origen taught unconditional salvation also?

Is God a just God? Can God lie?

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

crakjak · #4 03-30-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Did you know Origen taught unconditional salvation also?

Is God a just God? Can God lie?

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Unconditional salvation is not a accurate definition of "universal reconciliation", the fact that God wills that all come to repentance, and that Jesus came to seek and to save the lost. He will seek until every one of His creation bows willingly and declares Jesus Lord, and at that point He will have become their Lord. God does not lie, "the PURE in heart shall SEE God" and "all flesh shall SEE the salvation of God."

Finally, the OT uses the term "everlasting fire" to define fire that achieves its purpose. There are numerous examples of "everlasting fire" the has quite definitively "gone out".

Yes, Origen embraced universal reconciliation, and he was rejected by the later "church fathers" because of it. At the time of his life it was a fairly common view, and has been the view of many well known church leaders thru the ages.

crakjak · #5 03-30-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupCake

Something to think about.......

Have you decided what you think about this?

rrford · #6 03-30-2007, 12:18 AM

His Righteousness demands true and merciful judgment. We know He can do whatever he chooses to do. But there are some things He will not do because of WHO He is.

crakjak · #7 03-30-2007, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

His Righteousness demands true and merciful judgment. We know He can do whatever he chooses to do. But there are some things He will not do because of WHO He is.

Granted. GOD IS LOVE.

He is the FIRST cause, has He caused something that requires unmerciful punishment?

Man comes into this sin infected world with "brain damage" toward righteousness, so he is "handicapped". In this context if he does not find the right combination of belief......? Does seventy sinful years, truly and mercifully, equal endless damnation?

rrford · #8 03-30-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Granted. GOD IS LOVE.

He is the FIRST cause, has He caused something that requires unmerciful punishment?

Man comes into this sin infected world with "brain damage" toward righteousness, so he is "handicapped". In this context if he does not find the right combination of belief......? Does seventy sinful years, truly and mercifully, equal endless damnation?:winkgrin

Does 70 years of self-willed living and rejection of the love of God equate to temporary damnation?

crakjak · #9 03-30-2007, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

Does 70 years of self-willed living and rejection of the love of God equate to temporary damnation?

I have four children, one 35 year old special needs son (difficult), a 23 year old very compliant son (easy), a 21 year old wonderful daughter(easy), then a 21 year old, creative, artist, question everything son (hard). Every one of these guys are loved unconditionally, but they all have required different approaches on mom and dad's part to understand and parent them. The middle two have been a breeze and always a joy (almost always), our 35 year old has taken everything we have had, likewise our 21 year old.

But as I have continued to love and to listen and to understand and reach them out to them they too are becoming more and more a joy, in other words we are becoming friends. Will God, who planted the love of our children in us, do any less for HIS CHILDREN? Just because someone is difficult and mean, does not necessarily mean they have "rejected the love of GOD", they simply don't KNOW Him yet.

To answer your question, I believe it equates the refiners fire.

Rhoni · #10 03-30-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

I have four children, one 35 year old special needs son (difficult), a 23 year old very compliant son (easy), a 21 year old wonderful daughter(easy), then a 21 year old, creative, artist, question everything son (hard). Every one of these guys are loved unconditionally, but they all have required different approaches on mom and dad's part to understand and parent them. The middle two have been a breeze and always a joy (almost always), our 35 year old has taken everything we have had, likewise our 21 year old.

But as I have continued to love and to listen and to understand and reach them out to them they too are becoming more and more a joy, in other words we are becoming friends. Will God, who planted the love of our children in us, do any less for HIS CHILDREN? Just because someone is difficult and mean, does not necessarily mean they have "rejected the love of GOD", they simply don't KNOW Him yet.

I hope I have conveyed what I am trying to communicate??

Great post! And so much more does our heavenly father love us!