Rico you said "God gets the glory whether He heals someone or not".
How does God get glory out of someone dying???
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Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
I knew a sister who told me she had never been to a doctor in her life. She was an 80+ year old lady preacher- godly from head to toe. Said she had trusted God with her health since her birth. I was standing at her bedside as she lay at the point of death. She was having a hard time breathing and I asked her to let me go to the Rescue Squad to get some oxygen to help her breathe. She said, "No, though I know it is just air, I have trusted God all these years...I'd hate to fail him now. When she passed, you could almost hear the angels singing. God's glory came down and swept her soul up to be with the Lord.
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"Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him...." -Psa. 37:7
Waiting for the Lord is easy... Waiting patiently? Not so much.
God doesn't get any glory over people trusting him to the death?
No God doesnt get any glory from people REFUSING to use their common sense and dying NEDLESSLY!
The Pastor and His wife I knew who BOTH died NEEDLESSLY leaving a little boy parentless did NOT bring God Glory!
Your Pastor dying NEEDLESSLY did NOT bring God Glory!
Those that die NEEDLESSLY following his example will NOT bring God glory!
The Baby in the photos down in Louisiana that died NEEDLESSLY did not bring God any GLORY!
DYING NEEDLESSLY such as from an infected pimple on the back of your neck by REFUSING medical treatment or of the REFUSING of an outpatient skin cancer removal or the REFUSING of medical professionals causing a badly botched home delivery and again NEEDLESS death not only do NOT bring God GLORY but actually quite the opposite, they bring him AND his church MUCH shame and cause many lost people to completely tune the TRUE message we have OUT as they estimate us to be DANGEROUSLY self destructive.
Please stop contending that it does!
What gives God glory is REAL BIBLE BASED FAITH that brings RESULTS not in DEATH, but in LIFE.
Ignorance is not now nor will it ever BE bliss no matter how much FAITH you put in it.
What more can one say? widows, orphans, dead babies THIS is what this doctrine leaves us with, and all NEEDLESS so sadly sadly NEEDLESS, what glory is there in NEEDLESS death?? Please some one find some so that Rico can feel justified in a very wrong position to contend for.
lets say this really clearly without a lot of words.
If a person is sick, and can go to a doctor to get medicine that will cure them, and they refuse to go because of their "faith" they are in fact harming the temple of God and that is a sin.
Scriptural reference please?
Quote:
if it is their child that is sick, then not only are they sinning, they need their butt kicked up between their shoulders.
I knew a sister who told me she had never been to a doctor in her life. She was an 80+ year old lady preacher- godly from head to toe. Said she had trusted God with her health since her birth. I was standing at her bedside as she lay at the point of death. She was having a hard time breathing and I asked her to let me go to the Rescue Squad to get some oxygen to help her breathe. She said, "No, though I know it is just air, I have trusted God all these years...I'd hate to fail him now. When she passed, you could almost hear the angels singing. God's glory came down and swept her soul up to be with the Lord.
Now that is "GREAT FAITH"
I find that there aren't too many Apostolics with that kind of faith, because it doesn't fit into their little box.
I knew a another woman who developed a brain tumor. Surgery, radiation and chemo. And drugs... lots of drugs. But, when the doctors did all they could do, I read to her where King Amos trusted the doctors rather than trusting God, and died. She said thats what she wanted to do...trust God...whatever He decides, was okay with her. And a few days later, she went to be with Him. That woman was my wife this past February, and she too was a woman of great faith.
The point is this... whether we take meds to ease pain or whatever, or not, we have to trust God. Job did: "Yea, thou he slay me, yet will I trust Him!". Using meds is no more a sign of a lack of faith, than refusing meds is a sign of faith. I trust God to keep me safe while wiring up an AC unit. But I still use insulated tools. Using meds to help with pain or whatever is no different.
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"Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him...." -Psa. 37:7
Waiting for the Lord is easy... Waiting patiently? Not so much.
I find that there aren't too many Apostolics with that kind of faith, because it doesn't fit into their little box.
Subliminal message here..... If you choose MEDICAL treatment you dont have GREAT FAITH. If you choose to die from an infection that could be immediately wiped out in ten seconds of treatment......then you have GREAT FAITH. Yeah THAT is the kind of faith that fits into a little box my friend, a little PINE box.
You people are not only wrong but DANGEROUSLY so. And the TRAIL of dead men women teenagers and babies left in your wake is not only a great reproach to the faith but deserves to be looked into by the civil authorities.
And heaven help ALL of us if that ever happens because I can assure you it will NOT bring "Glory" to God for the world to know about the needless deaths of adults and the criminal deaths of children.
P.S. to clear up the emotional reaction of Rico's reply to me, I NEVER called these peoples ***Faith*** UNGODLY. I did call the ***doctrine*** that they espouse UNGODLY and it IS as it leads to the untimely deaths, NOT DISFIGUREMENT BUT DEATH of many MANY people especially in that circle of fellowship that Rico references INCLUDING the deaths of many helpless babies whose parents have been led one way or another through the men you mention to NOT have medical attention at delivery and you MUST KNOW THIS!
Speak up about this error in judgement even if you chose to do so in more moderate terms, but again there is blood every where around this movement that claims to "TRUST THE LORD" of people who died needlessly because they had been led to believe that by refusing medical assistance they had chosen a HIGHER road of FAITH. Husbandless wives, fatherless kids, and ***I**** have a "STINKING ATTITUDE" because I speak up against that.
Go figure....
I have enjoyed reading your posts on this thread. As a medical professional, I have seen what happens when people neglect their health, or the health of their loved ones.
The state has stepped in more than once to bring charges up against parents who's children have died because they refused to provide health care. I support that totally.
I wonder what the outcry would be if the children of these posters who think what you are saying is idiotic told their parents that they wanted God to provide for them and refuse anything their parents gave them or did for them. I doubt they'd be seen as honorable for wanting to trust God as they refuse the food their parents set before them.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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