Martin Luther on Christian Baptism: IT SAVES!!!!!!

[mizpeh]

Written by DaveC: Here's what Martin Luther (you know, the guy whose battle cry was "the just shall live by faith!!!") had to say about baptism (taken from his Large Catechism):

"Thus, and much more even, you must honor Baptism and esteem it glorious on account of the Word, since He Himself has honored it both by words and deeds; moreover, confirmed it with miracles from heaven. For do you think it was a jest that, when Christ was baptized, the heavens were opened and the Holy Ghost descended visibly, and everything was divine glory and majesty?

Therefore I exhort again that these two, the water and the Word, by no means be separated from one another and parted. For if the Word is separated from it, the water is the same as that with which the servant cooks, and may indeed be called a bath-keeper's baptism. But when it is added, as God has ordained, it is a Sacrament, and is called Christ-baptism. Let this be the first part regarding the essence and dignity of the holy Sacrament.

In the second place, since we know now what Baptism is, and how it is to be regarded, we must also learn why and for what purpose it is instituted; that is, what it profits, gives and works. And this also we cannot discern better than from the words of Christ above quoted:

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.”(Mark 16:16)

Therefore, state it most simply thus, that the power, work, profit, fruit, and end of Baptism is this, namely, to save. For no one is baptized in order that he may become a prince, but, as the words declare, that he be saved. But to be saved, we know, is nothing else than to be delivered from sin, death, and the devil, and to enter into the kingdom of Christ, and to live with Him forever. Here you see again how highly and precious we should esteem Baptism, because in it we obtain such an unspeakable treasure, which also indicates sufficiently that it cannot be ordinary mere water.

For mere water could not do such a thing, but the Word does it, and (as said above) the fact that the name of God is comprehended therein. But where the name of God is, there must be also life and salvation, that it may indeed be called a divine, blessed, fruitful, and gracious water; for by the Word such power is imparted to Baptism that it is a laver of regeneration, as St. Paul also calls it. (Titus 3:5.)

But as our would-be wise, new spirits assert that faith alone saves, and that works and external things avail nothing, we answer: It is true, indeed, that nothing in us is of any avail but faith, as we shall hear still further. But these blind guides are unwilling to see this, namely, that faith must have something which it believes, that is, of which it takes hold, and upon which it stands and rests. Thus faith clings to the water, and believes that it is Baptism, in which there is pure salvation and life; not through the water (as we have sufficiently stated), but through the fact that it is embodied in the Word and institution of God, and the name of God inheres in it.

Now, if I believe this, what else is it than believing in God as in Him who has given and planted His Word into this ordinance, and proposes to us this external thing wherein we may apprehend such a treasure? Now, they are so mad as to separate faith and that to which faith clings and is bound, though it be something external. Yea, it shall and must be something external, that it may be apprehended by the senses, and understood and thereby be brought into the heart, as indeed the entire Gospel is an external, verbal preaching.

In short, what God does and works in us He proposes to work through such external ordinances. Wherever, therefore, He speaks, yea, in whichever direction or by whatever means He speaks, thither faith must look, and to that it must hold. Now here we have the words: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” To what else do they refer than to Baptism, that is, to the water comprehended in God's ordinance? Hence it follows that whoever rejects Baptism rejects the Word of God, faith, and Christ, who directs us thither and binds us to Baptism.

In the third place since we have learned the great benefit and power of Baptism, let us see further who is the person that receives what Baptism gives and profits. This is again most beautifully and clearly expressed in the words: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. That is, faith alone makes the person worthy to receive profitably the saving, divine water. For, since these blessings are here presented and promised in the words in and with the water, they cannot be received in any other way than by believing them with the heart. Without faith it profits nothing, notwithstanding it is in itself a divine superabundant treasure. Therefore this single word (He that believeth) effects this much that it excludes and repels all works which we can do, in the opinion that we obtain and merit salvation by them. For it is determined that whatever is not faith avails nothing nor receives anything.
But if they say, as they are accustomed: Still Baptism is itself a work, and you say works are of no avail for salvation; what then, becomes of faith? Answer: Yes, our works, indeed, avail nothing for salvation; Baptism, however, is not our work, but God's (for, as was stated, you must put Christ-baptism far away from a bath-keeper's baptism). God's works, however, are saving and necessary for salvation, and do not exclude, but demand, faith; for without faith they could not be apprehended. For by suffering the water to be poured upon you, you have not yet received Baptism in such a manner that it benefits you anything; but it becomes beneficial to you if you have yourself baptized with the thought that this is according to God's command and ordinance, and besides in God's name, in order that you may receive in the water the promised salvation. Now, this the fist cannot do, nor the body; but the heart must believe it.

Thus you see plainly that there is here no work done by us, but a treasure which He gives us, and which faith apprehends; just as the Lord Jesus Christ upon the cross is not a work, but a treasure comprehended in the Word, and offered to us and received by faith. Therefore they do us violence by exclaiming against us as though we preach against faith; while we alone insist upon it as being of such necessity that without it nothing can be received nor enjoyed."

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Written by DaveC: Here's what Martin Luther (you know, the guy whose battle cry was "the just shall live by faith!!!") had to say about baptism (taken from his Large Catechism):

Please delete this thread before Adino reads it he might commit suicide.

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Please delete this thread before Adino reads it he might commit suicide.

Hee heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Nahum]

Excellent find Mizpeh!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Excellent find Mizpeh!

I found it on CARM quoted by one of the best Oneness and New Birth apologists I have read online. He's also a member here but doesn't post much. DaveC519.


http://www.christiandiscussionforums...23#post3272123

[Steve Epley]

Shocked I say I am shocked and all this time I thought Maple Leaf was a con like us?

[mizpeh]

The following quote is also attributed to Martin Luther:

“Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer!” (there is no beer in heaven, so let us drink it here)

Any man may be right on one occasion and wrong on another.

I may agree with Bro's Epley and Old Paths on Jesus Name baptism, and yet realize that they are mistaken on many other issues.

Mapleleaf, how about telling us why you disagree with Luther? Can you take him on (his arguments) point by point?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Written by DaveC: Here's what Martin Luther (you know, the guy whose battle cry was "the just shall live by faith!!!") had to say about baptism (taken from his Large Catechism):

"for by the Word such power is imparted to Baptism that it is a laver of regeneration, as St. Paul also calls it. (Titus 3:5.)"

" Thus faith clings to the water, and believes that it is Baptism, in which there is pure salvation and life; not through the water (as we have sufficiently stated), but through the fact that it is embodied in the Word and institution of God, and the name of God inheres in it."

A laver of regeneration? ......HUH?

The name of God (i.e. Jesus)... inherent within the waters of baptism.? SAY WHAT???


Say it ain't so!! Martin Luther is such a hero to so many one steppers.

If a "3-step" conservative Pentecostal had written these words, certain one-steppers would accuse him of sacramentalism, salvation-by-works, etc, etc, etc.

But since their buddy Martin Luther is the one who said it... I'm sure those same folks can come up with some way to explain away the meaning of his words. .

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

"for by the Word such power is imparted to Baptism that it is a laver of regeneration, as St. Paul also calls it. (Titus 3:5.)"

" Thus faith clings to the water, and believes that it is Baptism, in which there is pure salvation and life; not through the water (as we have sufficiently stated), but through the fact that it is embodied in the Word and institution of God, and the name of God inheres in it."

A laver of regeneration? ......HUH?

The name of God (i.e. Jesus)... inherent within the waters of baptism.? SAY WHAT???


Say it ain't so!! Martin Luther is such a hero to so many one steppers.

If a "3-step" conservative Pentecostal had written these words, certain one-steppers would accuse him of sacramentalism, salvation-by-works, etc, etc, etc.

But since their buddy Martin Luther is the one who said it... I'm sure those same folks can come up with some way to explain away the meaning of his words. .

You left out his proof text: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.”

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Mapleleaf, how about telling us why you disagree with Luther? Can you take him on (his arguments) point by point?

You quoted my post before I deleted it. My intent was to show that Martin Luther is a two edged sword. Many on this forum will read the quoted passage and impute Oneness Pentecostal meaning to his words, but perhaps will understand Martin Luther differently if they read his full works. Here is another quote from the same larger catechism that further explains some of the terms in your quote.

XIIIA.
Part Fourth
Of Infant Baptism.

__________
Here a question occurs by which the devil through his sects, confuses the world, namely, Of Infant Baptism, whether children also believe, and are justly baptized. Concerning this we say briefly: Let the simple dismiss this question from their minds, and refer it to the learned. But if you wish to answer then answer thus: --

That the Baptism of infants is pleasing to Christ is sufficiently proved from His own work, namely, that God sanctifies many of them who have been thus baptized, and has given them the Holy Ghost; and that there are yet many even to-day in whom we perceive that they have the Holy Ghost both because of their doctrine and life; as it is also given to us by the grace of God that we can explain the Scriptures and come to the knowledge of Christ, which is impossible without the Holy Ghost. But if God did not accept the baptism of infants, He would not give the Holy Ghost nor any of His gifts to any of them; in short, during this long time unto this day no man upon earth could have been a Christian. Now, since God confirms Baptism by the gifts of His Holy Ghost as is plainly perceptible in some of the church fathers, as St. Bernard, Gerson, John Hus, and others, who were baptized in infancy, and since the holy Christian Church cannot perish until the end of the world, they must acknowledge that such infant baptism is pleasing to God. For He can never be opposed to Himself, or support falsehood and wickedness, or for its promotion impart His grace and Spirit. This is indeed the best and strongest proof for the simple-minded and unlearned. For they shall not take from us or overthrow this article: I believe a holy Christian Church, the communion of saints.

Further, we say that we are not so much concerned to know whether the person baptized believes or not; for on that account Baptism does not become invalid; but everything depends upon the Word and command of God. This now is perhaps somewhat acute but it rests entirely upon what I have said, that Baptism is nothing else than water and the Word of God in and with each other, that is when the Word is added to the water, Baptism is valid, even though faith be wanting. For my faith does not make Baptism, but receives it. Now, Baptism does not become invalid even though it be wrongly received or employed; since it is not bound (as stated) to our faith, but to the Word.

For even though a Jew should to-day come dishonestly and with evil purpose, and we should baptize him in all good faith, we must say that his baptism is nevertheless genuine. For here is the water together with the Word of God. even though he does not receive it as he should, just as those who unworthily go to the Sacrament receive the true Sacrament even though they do not believe.

Thus you see that the objection of the sectarians is vain. For (as we have said) even though infants did not believe, which however, is not the case, yet their baptism as now shown would be valid, and no one should rebaptize them; just as nothing is detracted from the Sacrament though some one approach it with evil purpose, and he could not be allowed on account of his abuse to take it a second time the selfsame hour, as though he had not received the true Sacrament at first; for that would mean to blaspheme and profane the Sacrament in the worst manner. How dare we think that God's Word and ordinance should be wrong and invalid because we make a wrong use of it?

Full Quote