Witchcraft = medication

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by tbpew

I am confident that our body chemistry is the line of demarcation between body and spirit.

Elaborate please.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Elaborate please.

I will, even though I am extending out beyond my more practiced areas for discussion.

Any spirit, seeking to have influence within a vessel/creature needs a portal.

Our bodies internal system codes are all written on DNA ( a coded map written using the molecular geometry of a nucleic acid...chemistry)

communication on a cellular level is accomplished using RNA, which transmits the DNA information to proteins produced by the cells.

So, if an influence can effect the chemistry of the body, if can have access to the control house of every aspect of well-being, pertaining to the creature.

Most everything in our human body control system has an associated sucretion or some type of chemical release to signal some other chemical release to signal some action.

If you can affect the chemistry, you can affect the operation of the vessel.....afterall, drugs absolutely do have an effectiveness at least on the symptomatic level. Sadly, most modern so-called 'therapys' are not curative but rather symptom management (the whole auto-immune suppressors/inhibitors for example).

So what is so interesting is how a change in our chemistry can (or does) effect the cellular coding (DNA) that maps the next generation of cellular reproduction (mitosis) and the genetic map we pass down through human reproduction.

So, by way of a hypothesis:
many folks believe that the mercury preservatives in immunization treatments has resulted in the increase cases of children born with autistic symptoms. None of us would argue with the POSSIBILITY that a chemical influence changes the course of human life and the manner in which that life is lived.

Ok then,
Can alcohol change the body's chemistry and subsequently even alter the DNA or RNA pattern, plan, or code?

Can bitterness change the chemical secretions from various glands that accumulate to have an influence on the DNA or RNA fundamental systems?

Can love, hate, envy, strife, fear....result in a chronic series of glandular secretions that, over time, actually alter the cellular design map?

If a single inoculation of a mercury-based preservative can change the entire developmental track of a precious child, then which of us knows how to quantify what extended ingesting of Zoloft or Prozac or any of the host of antibiotics that are so over prescribed, maybe its the potent family of alkaloids like caffeine or the quintessential refined white sugars or high fructose corn syrup.

Hey pick your poison, but each one of them provide an entryway into your body chemistry.

Is it coincidence that the scriptural warning is that we not be caught in the snare the has occassion through our hearts being overcharged with:
surfeiting,
drunkenness,
and cares of this life

I submit that all three of these categories directly effect the chemistry of your body, and in doing so, render you captive, unaware, in a tragic snare.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Oneness Man

Ferd,

Who suggested God is against medicine? I haven't seen anyone here that suggested it.

Then what do you define as "medicine"? (The part that God isn't against?)

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by tbpew

I am not prepared to link God with the pharmaceutical industry or its practitioners.

At best they are different options available for a person to choose.
At worst, they may be in opposition.

The principle of ingesting something that may have therapeutic benefit with regard to managing a natural consequence with these bodies, is a scripturally outlined opportunity. Extending that confidence to pave a road of acceptance concerning the large scale medicating we see in our current societal approach to health care is NOT consistent with " a little wine for the stomach and strong drink for the dieing."

I do not believe that the merry heart does good like a medicine.
The Hebrew word gehaw(?) is REMEDY or CURE. KJV translators may have been OK to use the two words interchangeable [medicine and CURE], but who among us would believe that medicine and CURE are synonymous or interchangeable.

Our world is SUPER SATURATED with synthetic chemical compounds that we put into our blood stream. Every one of these choices will need to be subsequently filtered by our liver or kidneys. If that is all perfectly consistent with God's plan, how about we just drop ALL PHARMA and just drink a little wine when our stomach is upset.

I am confident that our body chemistry is the line of demarcation between body and spirit. It is an aspect of our lives that should be maintained with all vigilance and direction from our Lord.

Pewman, I think you may be mixing metaphors or some such....

If you fall in with those that are linking modern medication with witchcraft and ancient spiritualists who used drugs as a gateway to the spirit world, then we strongly disagree.


If however, as the above post suggests, you want to have a conversation about the over medication of American Society, then I strongly agree with you!

there are clear indications that we are over medicated. I for one could be taking pain medicine today. I could have a prescription for the strongest vicodine available if I wanted it because I have constant pain related to my back.

But, the fact is, the pain is manageable without medicine. Far too many simply go to the doctor and get more pills.

diabetes is a terrible disease and they require a great deal of medication. but I know many who could control it to a greater degree and far less medication if they would change their lifestyles and eating habits.
(Please note this is no indictment to those of you here with this disease).

just watch television for 30 minutes and you will see pills for everything. we take pills to sleep, pills to wake up, pills to get thru life, pills to deal with death. you name it we have a pill for it and really what a lot of these folks ought to be doing is walking 30 minutes a day and facing life head on.


***Not so legal disclaimer***
I'm not a doctor so if you are own some medication, please continue and see a doctor if you think you should change your medication taking regimen...

[tbpew]

FERD,
I am willing to discuss uncomfortable things because I see them as major snares in the life of the saints of God.

There is no wisdom in coming into any group of folks in the year 2008 and start saying that taking any kind of pills is evidence that you are of the devil and you and your witchcraft supporters are hell-bound captives.

Is the alternative, just say nothing?
Folks who are admonished by scripture to understand that our bodies are the habitation of God must confront the impact of ingesting sythethic chemicals compounds DEMANDS continual vigilance involving the position these chemicals are placing them.

Is the alternative learn to embrace a viewpoint that God is the provider of all these new sythethic chemicals that we are instructed to ingest, not only today, but for each and every day for the rest of our lives. FERD, DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?

Or should we just not talk about anything uncomfortable because people we love may be presently in the midst of such activity.

FERD, I do not believe God gets ANY GLORY from a person living the rest of their lives injecting insulin into their bloodstream. God's mercy is still a part of their lives but their present actions and dependancies are NOT AUTHORED BY HIM.

Are these people in sin because of unbelief? I have no basis or ability to make such a conclusion. BUT a chronic, perpetual, symptom managment approach is NOT GOD's remedy....it is man's medicine, 39 stripes were not supplied to the back of our Lord so that we could have chemicals available to dump into your blood to mange symptoms.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by tbpew

FERD,
I am willing to discuss uncomfortable things because I see them as major snares in the life of the saints of God.

There is no wisdom in coming into any group of folks in the year 2008 and start saying that taking any kind of pills is evidence that you are of the devil and you and your witchcraft supporters are hell-bound captives.

Is the alternative, just say nothing?
Folks who are admonished by scripture to understand that our bodies are the habitation of God must confront the impact of ingesting sythethic chemicals compounds DEMANDS continual vigilance involving the position these chemicals are placing them.

Is the alternative learn to embrace a viewpoint that God is the provider of all these new sythethic chemicals that we are instructed to ingest, not only today, but for each and every day for the rest of our lives. FERD, DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?

Or should we just not talk about anything uncomfortable because people we love may be presently in the midst of such activity.

FERD, I do not believe God gets ANY GLORY from a person living the rest of their lives injecting insulin into their bloodstream. God's mercy is still a part of their lives but their present actions and dependancies are NOT AUTHORED BY HIM.

Are these people in sin because of unbelief? I have no basis or ability to make such a conclusion. BUT a chronic, perpetual, symptom managment approach is NOT GOD's remedy....it is man's medicine, 39 stripes were not supplied to the back of our Lord so that we could have chemicals available to dump into your blood to mange symptoms.

It is certainly an interesting subject, and you are right. it is very uncomfortable for people to talk about some aspects here.

there are these 2 things you mention and a third as well.... LIFESTYLE.

Medicine and continual symptom managment, and healing from God arent the only 2 things that belong in the discussion. more and more of our sicknesses are a result of terrible lifestyle habits. That has to be part of the topic too.

Tbpew, I have at different time struggled with why God has not healed me. Why I have had to walk (really limp) down this road. Why me? is always the question isnt it?

You speak of faith and such. My brother, during my trials I have prayed for many and seen God heal them....DURING my trials with my back. I have faith. I know what God can do. I have SEEN what God can do.

There is more to this faith thing and healing thing than simply looking at people and telling them you arent healed because you dont have faith or have sin in your life. I dont understand the ways of God but I do understand his Grace. It teaches me every day to lean on him.

As for medicine, I firmly beleive that a child of God ought to do what ever they can to be healthy. If that requires taking medicine then they should. period.

I cannot find it in my head anywhere for a man to not take his medicine, and die waiting on God to heal him and leave his family unprotected. That in my opinion just might be a sin that cannot be repented for. God Forbid!

At the same time, someone living on pills because they dont have the will power to step up and take care of their bodies and change their lifestyle and live a healthy life is likely sinning as well. Tuff words I suppose. It certainly ought to be discussed.

There is a balance that we have to find. Temperance is the word that comes to mind.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Ferd

You speak of faith and such. My brother, during my trials I have prayed for many and seen God heal them....DURING my trials with my back. I have faith. I know what God can do. I have SEEN what God can do.

There is more to this faith thing and healing thing than simply looking at people and telling them you arent healed because you dont have faith or have sin in your life. I dont understand the ways of God but I do understand his Grace. It teaches me every day to lean on him.

Ferd,
I can not recall bringing a FAITH-linkage into my presentation of what I think of as a DILEMNA concerning the overcharged/overwhelming mindset of sythethic chemcials as a life solution for the saint of God. I fully understand that there is always a linkage between God provision of good gifts and our operation in the realm of his Spirit (a.k.a faith).

My present participation in this thread is more based in a concern that we CONCLUDE that ingesting sythethic chemicals for symptom mangement IS GOD's handiwork!

permit an example to hopefully get 'me' out of your mind as being in the "Salem witch-hunting" category.
If I have a neighbor who has become a captive to Heroin and I suspect hiim of being a thief, and my neighborhood has had several B&E's in the last few months:
I can:
Approach No. 1
Erect a high fence around my property and place chains and locks on the gates and I can install surveilance cameras and hire a private security company to patrol my neighborhood.
or:
Approach No. 2
I can seek the Spirit of God to deliver him from his captivity and then avail myself to serve when God established the ocassions/seasons when I have access to him.

So,

Is anything that I did in approach no. 1 sin?
I can not see any of these actions as a transgression of God's Word.

But my approach is limited by the arm of flesh and the resources I have available. Afterall, to do NOTHING would be foolish/unwise. But this approach will FOREVER require maintenance and consume resources of time, money and emotional energy. Following this path should lead me to knock, seek and ask until God provides understanding.

If we are not able to hear from God, we have nothing to establish our faith upon. Our only course is persue what we know or have access to, within the realm of our FIRST birth. The aching saddeness is when we have tried what we know to do, but do not know where God is.

My larger concern is when we don't have a lifestyle that is familiar in seeking God because we believe we have already found him....at the corner pharmacy.

.......

thank you for your addition of LIFESTYLE. You have added a vitally importance aspect concerning how we attend to, or neglect, the stewardship of the chemistry of our own bodies, the habitation of God.

[rgcraig]

Very interesting stuff........

[rgcraig]

Not sure this is appropriate here, but do you guys believe that when man was created that he had complete ability to heal himself or more than likely until they sinned they weren't even capable of getting hurt or being sick.

So, once sin entered that ability was lost. That's why there are some people if they practice enough they can overcome pain by meditation, etc. Are they tapping into the part of the brain that was meant to be anyway?

Does that make sense?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Not sure this is appropriate here, but do you guys believe that when man was created that he had complete ability to heal himself or more than likely until they sinned they weren't even capable of getting hurt or being sick.

So, once sin entered that ability was lost. That's why there are some people if they practice enough they can overcome pain by meditation, etc. Are they tapping into the part of the brain that was meant to be anyway?

Does that make sense?

I think that stems from the understanding that death entered the world thru sin.

i agree that sin is the catalyst for all death and all sickness is an extention of death.

I dont believe that all the sickness we suffer from is a result of our individual sin.