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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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Old 02-12-2007, 01:21 PM
Chan
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Psychology: Science or Religion?

Worldliness has taken hold of the Church in North America in so many ways - so much so that there is no significant statistical difference between the world and the Church with regard to such things as the percentage of divorces. Worldly philosophies such as evolution and psychology have established strongholds. Consequently, it is not unusual to hear preachers proclaim that the Creation account in Genesis cannot be taken literally and it is not unusual for the Church to hire practitioners of psychology to do what pastors, elders and more mature saints should be doing - and relying on psychological theories to explain human behavior instead of relying on the word of God. Worldliness has taken such a strong hold of the Church today that the vast majority of Christians unquestioningly accept "science" as absolute truth - even though the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is THE truth (and not one truth among many).

So, getting back to psychology, is it science or is it religion? The article linked here contains some interesting information (Psychology - Science or Religion):

FOUR MYTHS ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY

Among professing Christians, there are four major myths about psychology which have become entrenched in the Church:

The first major myth is common to Christians and non-Christians alike: that psychotherapy (psychological counseling along with its theories and techniques) is a science -- a means of understanding and helping humanity based on empirical evidence gleaned from measurable and consistent data.

The second major myth is that the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible. Psychologists who also claim to be Christians generally claim that they are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology.

The third major myth is that people who are experiencing mental-emotional behavioral problems are mentally ill. They are supposedly psychologically sick and, therefore, need psychological therapy. The common argument is that the doctor treats the body, the minister treats the spirit, and the psychologist treats the mind and emotions. Ministers, unless they are trained in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, are then supposedly unqualified to help people who are suffering from serious problems of living.

The fourth major myth is that psychotherapy has a high record of success -- that professional psychological counseling produces greater results than other forms of help, such as self-help or that provided by family, friends, or pastors. Thus, psychological counseling is seen as more effective than Biblical counseling in helping some Christians. This is one of the main reasons why so many professing Christians are training to become psychotherapists.

IS PSYCHOLOGY A SCIENCE?

Men and women of God seek wisdom and knowledge from both the revelation of Scripture and the physical world. Paul contends that everyone is accountable before God because of the evidence that creation gives of His existence (Rom. 1:20).

Scientific study is a valid way of coming to an understanding of God's work, and can be very useful in many walks of life.

True science develops theories based on what is observed. It examines each theory with rigorous tests to see if it describes reality. The scientific method works well in observing and recording physical data and in reaching conclusions which either confirm or nullify a theory.

During the mid-19th century, scholars (philosophers, really) desired to study human nature in the hope of applying the scientific method to observe, record, and treat human behavior. They believed that if people could be studied in a scientific manner, there would be greater accuracy in understanding present behavior, in predicting future behavior, and in altering behavior through scientific intervention.

Psychology, and its active arm of psychotherapy, have indeed adopted the scientific posture. However, from a strictly scientific point of view, they have not been able to meet the requirements of true science.

...

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. World-renowned research psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey is very blunt when he says:

"The techniques used by Western psychiatrists are, with few exceptions, on exactly the same scientific plane as the techniques used by witch doctors."

PSYCHOLOGY AS RELIGION

Explanations of why people behave the way they do and how they change have concerned philosophers, theologians, cultists, and occultists throughout the centuries. These explanations form the basis of modern psychology. Yet psychology deals with the very same areas of concern already dealt with in Scripture.

Since God's Word tells us how to live, all ideas about the why's of behavior and the how's of change must be viewed as religious in nature. Whereas the Bible claims divine revelation, psychotherapy claims scientific substantiation. Nevertheless, when it comes to behavior and attitudes, and morals and values, we are dealing with religion -- either the Christian faith or any one of a number of other religions, including secular humanism.

Repudiating the God of the Bible, both Freud and Jung led their followers in the quest for alternative understandings of mankind and alternative solutions to problems of living. They turned inward to their own limited imaginations and viewed their subjects from their own anti-Christian subjectivity.

The faith once delivered to the saints was displaced by a substitute faith disguising itself as medicine or science, but based upon foundations which are in direct contradiction to the Bible.

Psychiatrist Thomas Szasz, in his 1978 book The Myth of Psychotherapy, says, "The basic ingredients of psychotherapy does not always involve repression." He points out that while psychotherapy does not always involve repression, it does always involve religion and rhetoric (conversation). Szasz says very strongly that "the human relations we now call 'psychotherapy,' are, in fact, matters of religion -- and that we mislabel them as 'therapeutic' at great risk to our spiritual well-being." Elsewhere, in referring to psychotherapy as a religion, Szasz says:

"It is not merely a religion that pretends to be a science, it is actually a fake religion that seeks to destroy true religion."

Szasz also says that "psychotherapy is a modern, scientific-sounding name for what used to be called the 'cure of souls.'" One of his primary purposes for writing The Myth of Psychotherapy was:

"... to show how, with the decline of religion and the growth of science in the eighteenth century, the cure of (sinful) souls, which had been an integral part of the Christian religions, was recast as the cure of (sick) minds, and became an integral part of medicine."

The cure of souls, which once was a vital ministry of the Church, has now in this century been displaced by a cure of minds called "psychotherapy." True "Biblical" counseling has waned until presently it is almost nonexistent.

...

PSYCHOLOGY PLUS THE BIBLE

The Church has not escaped the all-pervasive influence of psychotherapy. It has unwittingly and eagerly embraced the pseudoscientisms of psychotherapy and has intimately incorporated this spectre into the very sinew of its life. Not only does the Church include the concepts and teachings of psychotherapists in sermons and seminaries, it steps aside and entrusts the mentally and emotionally halt and lame to the "high altar" of psychotherapy.

Many Church leaders contend that the Church doesn't have the ability to meet the needs of people suffering from depression, anxiety, fear, and other problems of living. They, therefore, trust the paid practitioners of the pseudoscientisms of psychotherapy more than they trust the Word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Because of the confusion between science and pseudoscience, Church leaders have elevated the psychotherapist to a position of authority in the modern Church. Thus, any attack on the amalgamation of psychotherapy and Christianity is considered to be an attack on the Church itself.

Although the Church has almost universally accepted and endorsed the psychological way, there are Christians who have not. Dr. Jay E. Adams says:

"In my opinion, advocating, allowing and practicing psychiatric and psychoanalytical dogmas within the church is every bit as pagan and heretical (and therefore perilous) as propagating the teachings of some of the most bizarre cults. The only vital difference is that the cults are less dangerous because their errors are more identifiable."

Psychotherapy is a most subtle and devious spectre haunting the Church, because it is perceived and received as a scientific salve for the sick soul, rather than for what it truly is: a pseudoscientific substitute system of religious belief.

The early Church faced and ministered to mental-emotional-behavioral problems which were as complex as the ones that exist today. If anything, the conditions of the early Church were more difficult than those we currently face. The early Christians suffered persecution, poverty, and various afflictions which are foreign to most of the twentieth-century Christendom (especially in the West). The catacombs of Rome are a testimony to the extent of the problems faced by the early Church.

FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION:

http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/psychology_christianity

http://www.psychologydebunked.com/
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Old 02-14-2007, 07:39 PM
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Arphaxad Arphaxad is offline
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I took psychology and philosophy at the same time in college, boy was my head spinning!
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:23 PM
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I have studied the Bible and psychology (to a lesser degree) for over 30 yrs. I have read psychological stuff that, IMO, bordered on New Age philosophies.

I have found that basic psychology has a place in the body of Christ as it relates to understanding personality types, marriage counselling etc. I have not found any descrepencies between biblical principles and basic human psychology. I do not think that Freud and Jung are the definitive people to follow either.

I disagree with myth 2 & 3 and believe that they are true, due to my own personal experiences as a Sr. Pastor for over 20yrs. I do not rely on psychology to help solve people's problem, but it has proved a helpful tool in understanding people's perspectives.
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Old 02-15-2007, 12:01 AM
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Isn't psychology basically the study of human nature? You can come to understand a lot about that simply by observing.

I don't think Solomon studied psychology but he seemed to know an awful lot about what made people tick and why they ticked like they did, and his wisdom came from _______ (fill in the blank).
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Old 02-15-2007, 01:03 AM
LaGirl LaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arphaxad View Post
I took psychology and philosophy at the same time in college, boy was my head spinning!
I BET!!!
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Old 02-15-2007, 01:03 AM
LaGirl LaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
Isn't psychology basically the study of human nature? You can come to understand a lot about that simply by observing.

I don't think Solomon studied psychology but he seemed to know an awful lot about what made people tick and whey they ticked like they did, and his wisdom came from _______ (fill in the blank).
you are right. SHO CAN!
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:41 AM
Chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord View Post
I have studied the Bible and psychology (to a lesser degree) for over 30 yrs. I have read psychological stuff that, IMO, bordered on New Age philosophies.
So, why would you defile the temple of God by bringing such falsehoods into the Church?

Quote:
I have found that basic psychology has a place in the body of Christ as it relates to understanding personality types, marriage counselling etc. I have not found any descrepencies between biblical principles and basic human psychology. I do not think that Freud and Jung are the definitive people to follow either.
Worldly philosophies have no place whatsoever in the Church.

Quote:
I disagree with myth 2 & 3 and believe that they are true, due to my own personal experiences as a Sr. Pastor for over 20yrs. I do not rely on psychology to help solve people's problem, but it has proved a helpful tool in understanding people's perspectives.
There is nothing helpful about wicked worldly philosophies. Such philosophies are part of what John referred to as "the world" when he said in his first epistle "love not the world..."
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:44 AM
Chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
Isn't psychology basically the study of human nature? You can come to understand a lot about that simply by observing.
No, psychology is not just basically the study of human nature. The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. Thus, psychology is a study of human nature based on ungodly world views. Note what Dr. Jay E. Adams, author of such books as Competent to Counsel, says:

"In my opinion, advocating, allowing and practicing psychiatric and psychoanalytical dogmas within the church is every bit as pagan and heretical (and therefore perilous) as propagating the teachings of some of the most bizarre cults. The only vital difference is that the cults are less dangerous because their errors are more identifiable."

Quote:
I don't think Solomon studied psychology but he seemed to know an awful lot about what made people tick and why they ticked like they did, and his wisdom came from _______ (fill in the blank).
But that has nothing whatsoever to do with psychology. Solomon's wisdom came from God. Psychology is a form of worldly so-called "wisdom" and has no place in the Church.
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:48 AM
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The point I was making is that psychology is basically the study of human nature and behavior and why people act like they do.

Solomon had lots of understanding and knowledge in regard to this that didn't come from the study of psychology. His wisdom, knowledge and understanding came basically from a knowledge and understanding of God and from God.

The same understanding is available for us from God if we seek Him and ask Him for His counsel and wisdom and knowledge.

It's fairly simple really.
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:52 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
The point I was making is that psychology is basically the study of human nature and behavior and why people act like they do.
I know that was your point but your point is inaccurate because psychology is not mere unbiased study of human behavior, nature, etc., it has its basis in worldly philosophies or world views.

Quote:
Solomon had lots of understanding and knowledge in regard to this that didn't come from the study of psychology. His wisdom, knowledge and understanding came basically from a knowledge and understanding of God and from God.
Yes, and I said that Solomon's wisdom came from God. However, it came from God supernaturally and not as mere innate ability. We agree that it did not come from psychology and, thus, we must make sure to separate what comes from God and what comes from the world.

Quote:
The same understanding is available for us from God if we seek Him and ask Him for His counsel and wisdom and knowledge.

It's fairly simple really.
Yes, but not through psychology or other worldly philosophies.
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