Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

The names below are Gentile men that Jesus called to be His disciples.


.

Very good point. The law was in effect during the gospels period. Jewish men ALONE could do the ministry. So does that mean gentile men today cannot preach?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

This thread is a waste of time..we have wrote the same things over and over on threads...
Most of us will never change our minds. I will always believe that God called Sister Agnes Holmes to preach along with many others I have met along the way. I am sorry that some overbearing women have been in ministy but I am also sorry some sissy men have been in ministry...
However there are women God used in both the old and new testaments and GODLY women are not trying to take the place of men nor trying to act like them...they quitely gather in the grain...for the harvest.
The go ye command applies to all christians. I wish I had another life to give obeying the go ye command.

Yes, Sister A, it can be a waste of time. However it's helpful too. Even though, as Brother Miller points out with the dead horse, it's something that has been gone over again and again- new generations keep coming up and it is good to revisit somethings.

I think some of the best arguments against homiletic misogyny are the examples and lives of the women carrying this Gospel around the world today. For anyone opposed to lady preachers I advise, why don't you through your own labors make their labors redundant and unneccessary?

Of course, when that day comes there will be no further need for men preachers either (Jeremiah 31:34).

[Trouvere]

I believe

[Felicity]

Women can preach - sure.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Very good point. The law was in effect during the gospels period. Jewish men ALONE could do the ministry. So does that mean gentile men today cannot preach?

Titus happened to be a Gentile and a Bishop. Elders were ordained in every city both Jewish and Gentiles. However NO women ordained I wonder why?

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Yes, Sister A, it can be a waste of time. However it's helpful too. Even though, as Brother Miller points out with the dead horse, it's something that has been gone over again and again- new generations keep coming up and it is good to revisit somethings.

I think some of the best arguments against homiletic misogyny are the examples and lives of the women carrying this Gospel around the world today. For anyone opposed to lady preachers I advise, why don't you through your own labors make their labors redundant and unneccessary?

Of course, when that day comes there will be no further need for men preachers either (Jeremiah 31:34).

Yes, you are right...there are some books about lady preachers that labored much in the vineyard...my greatest proze in life from any of my inlaws and their families was my brother in law sending me a book written about a woman preacher and the message he believed in me! (even though I have never claimed to be one)
I don't promote bossy forward ladies but neither do I promote sissy men...I think most men KNOW a lady from just a woman...I hope I am judged as a lady...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Why focus on pastor when teacher was also highlighted?

Again, those men were instructed by Paul to do as she bid them.

Again you are trying to read it one verse more than that verse supplies.
That is a bad way to interpret scriptures.

"Give her a Christian welcome that shows you are God's holy people. Provide her with anything she may need, because she has provided help to many people, including me".

The Greek word "prostatis" literally means "the one who stands by in case of need"

This would be totally in line with the rest of the Biblical teaching concerning women and men.

Phebe was nothing more than a sister in the church who helped out the ministers within the church. Be it material, or in labor.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

If they could have done the work themselves, Paul wouldn't have had to send someone else to teach them, whether is was man or woman.

Paul never said that she was there to teach? That is totally on you.

Now here's your opportunity to prove to us that Phebe was going to teach men.

If she is sent there to teach married and adult single men then why does Paul instruct Titus that elder sister were to teach younger women?

For us to follow your doctrine would cause a problem concerning the second chapter of Titus.

I await to see how you answer this and then I will have more questions.


Tit 2:1-5

"But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, TEACHERS of good things; That they may TEACH the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their OWN husbands, that the word of God be NOT BLASPHEMED ."

If Phebe taught she NEVER taught men.


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[ThePastorsCoach]

OH GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! I get nauseated when I see his posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sam]

I not only BELIEVE in women preachers,
I have actually SEEN some
and HEARD some.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

succourer:

1. a woman set over others
2. a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources

The Greek word "prostatis," "succourer" can also be translated "helper" or even better "patroness."

1. A woman who supports, protects, or champions someone or something, such as an institution, event, or cause; a sponsor or benefactor.
2. A woman who possesses the right to grant an ecclesiastical benefice to a member of the clergy.

3. Ecclesiastical benefice - an endowed church office giving income to its holder

Act 9:36

"Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was FULL OF GOOD WORKS and ALMSDEEDS which she did."

Phebe had business in Rome and therefore Paul had her carry the letter to the Roman church family. She was a woman who had helped many in the church at Cenchrea (Phebe was also a believer attached to that congregation) just as Dorcas helped many who were part of the New Covenant church, Phebe had also done the same, as Paul testifies in Rom 16:2. To say that Phebe was a teacher, pastor, apostle, evangelist, or prophet is trying to make a doctrine from speculation, and trying to make the Greek say something that it does not say.

Rom 16:1-2

"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also."

Prostatis means to assist, to join with, to protect, to represent, to care for, to help, to further (Kittle, p. 700-703)

Prostatis means to be guardian or protector of, to champion (Liddel/Scott, p. 1526, 1545).

The Greek word prostatsis when we really research it we get a better picture of what the Apostle Paul was trying to say to his readers and how his first century audience Jew and Greek would of understood his thoughts.

I have already proven that the Jewish community would have never put up with a woman being a teacher over married and single adult men. So as not to contradict the Hebrew Bible OT, Paul doesn't write the Roman Church that he is sending a female apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher to them. He does write to the Roman church that he is sending a female helper, one who champions a cause, an assistant. This Phebe is bringing a letter to the Roman elders and they are to help this sister with any of her needs. Paul is asking this because to insure to Phebe Christian hospitality, hence Paul's comment of "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints."

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

You can't avoid the meaning of that word. She aided people with her resources.

I totally agree with you 100% I never denied the above statement in any of my posts.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

You can't avoid the meaning of that word. She aided people with her resources. How did she do that if she couldn't teach them anything?

Easy, just because I ask a sister to bring a document to a church in California doesn't mean she will give the elders a Bible study once she arrives.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

The Bible says that if you give a man a fish, you fed him for a day, but TEACH him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

Huh?

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Phoebe wasn't there to feed those folks for a day. Paul wouldn't have sent her there to waste her time. She was a leader, a guardian, and a teacher with her resources.

Again, due to your lack of understanding of the Greek you miss what the scripture is actually saying. Phebe was taking an epistle to the Roman church, and she wasn't going to teach these men a Bible study, they would help her once she arrived and then send her on her way. You're wresting the scriptures to suit some agenda.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

She was a great help to people, but in helping people, teaching is involved.

That's not at all true. You have someone cook you Gumbo everyday of your life and still be able not to make the meal. Someone could repair your car out of the goodness of their heart every time you have trouble, and you may never learn a thing about your car. Do you know what a helper, or assistant is? I have had assistants in the past and never had them teach me while they were helping me perform my mechanical duties, most of the time it was I teaching them.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Surely you understand this as a minister and servant of God.

I understand that you have thoroughly beaten the Phebe issue to death.

You have failed to prove that she was a teacher to married and adult single men.

May the Lord richly bless you and yours.


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com