***Bombshell: ALJC vs. NCO Battle Royale: The NCO/AWCF strike back *** - Page 9

ChicagoPastor · #81 10-13-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The twonity teaching greatly affected the church in Colombia ... in the late 80's - early 90's. They had big rift when their former GS [Campos Elias?] supported it.

Campo Elias Bernal

Sister Alvear · #82 10-13-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

1. Jesus clearly said "THIS DO" speaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine to remember HIS death not the passover remembering the exodus from Egypt.
2. Paul clearly teaches the Lord's Supper continuing some 40 years after the Supper in the gospels.
3. The doctrine of Transubstation has NOTHING to do with the Lord's supper thus it is a strawman.

So true...and not only communion I love foot washing services...

papapraiz · #83 10-13-2007, 11:06 AM

Thank you very much Elder!

James Griffin · #84 10-13-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Maybe our old Bible school mate Jim Griffin could comment here since he is a spokesman for the NCO.

My hat is off to Jim as a oneness pentecostal with REAL academic credentials since leaving JCM.

Jim has a juris doctorate from South Texas College of Law in Houston ... one of the most revered law schools in the state of Texas.

My personal feelings is the title "New Church Order" is a bit lame and unoriginal.

Taking the questions/issues slightly out of order:

First thank you for the kind words Tim, I am proud of my alma mater and it is also obligatory to brag on Texas if you want to keep your citizenship here. STCL is for those in the know one of the most revered law schools in the country. Our moot court teams regularly compete in national competitions and have amassed the best win ratio in history. While competing against top Ivy League law schools we have been known to walk away with first, second, and third place awards simultaneously. If you want to learn theory go Ivy League, you want to learn to litigate go to South Texas!

As far as being “a spokesman” for the NCO: While I am not a leader in the fellowship, with a delicious twist of irony I have, what as far as I know is, the only title so far given, “staff attorney”. I have not yet received a job description or official assignment so I am not sure what that entails (but it sounds nice

.) However, since I appear to be the only one for the last several months publishing pure position pieces either on the NCO site or elsewhere, and since WH is my pastor, JS has become a friend closer than a brother, and the very few one on one encounters I have had with KP he has praised my articles (especially in the area of financial teachings). I feel comfortable being a spokesman for the limited purpose of defining the purpose, and origin of the NCO fellowship.

Its Purpose

Contrary to what has been propagated on several threads here, the NCO is NOT an organization, nor denomination, we did not splinter off anything. We are not, and have not encouraged UPC, ALJC nor any other ministers to either leave OR stay with the any organization or denomination they choose. Many if not most of our fellowship are within denominations including the UPC. Such things are a matter of individual convictions and conscience.

As individuals KP, JS, and WH have chosen to align with the AWCF. The AWCF likewise is a fellowship consisting of over 180 organizations, thousands of ministers, and therefore representing millions of believers. It is because of this association that KP, JS, and WH have been personally attacked both here and in other forums and media as being everything from divine flesh to latter rain. Obviously it is totally beyond the acumen of some folk to grasp the conceptual differentiation between fellowship and denomination. Likewise it has been proven in several threads here and also in recent organizational conferences the idea of setting aside disagreements and promoting commonality without compromising individual conviction(s) is beyond the mental and spiritual level of many dear brothers. The NCO has even been declared Trinitarian in here because KP individually chose to allow Cindy Jacobs to speak at an Awakening anniversary event attended by NCO members. This guilt by association is laughable on so many levels, not the least of which she is actually baptized in Jesus’ name and spirit filled. But I can certainly understand the consternation of some brethren, forget the Trinitarian aspect, can a true man of God allow a female, and one with “cut hair” at that behind a pulpit?

Once again there really is no written code of conduct, bylaws, or denominational writing to live by, because the NCO is a not a denomination. Anyone joining in fellowship for the sole purpose of finding an alternative denomination to the ALJC, UPC et al will be disappointed.

So what it is then? A paradigm, a way of thinking, that perhaps we should join together and learn from each other ways to take a first century gospel to a 21st century world. In the works are resources ranging from informing pastors in current legal issues and pitfalls, financial teachings, and church governance to issues like using internet, iPod, and other technologies to reach the lost. A fellowship determined to implement and use resources instead of endlessly debating the issue. A fellowship that may even (gasp) reach outside Apostolic circles. (Once again inciting those who cannot grasp that one can fellowship with someone of different understanding without violating his own doctrinal beliefs). On a private note I have personally heard KP, JS, and WH recently individually preach some of the most powerful Apostolic “2:38” messages of my life.

The Name

I believe someone on here said that they had heard KP use the term some years ago. I do know that calling the fellowship the New Church Order was pushed and implemented by WH. As to the thought paradigm, there is a New World Order, it is not a myth. And what better to oppose it than a New Church Order? The implementation of the kingdom of the anti-Christ is going to be technology driven, should not the Church use every tool at its disposal to reach the lost? (Apparently for the moment this is even the majority view within the UPC).

In summary and JUST FOR YOU TIM, a reposting of an article from the NCO website will follow this posting, the TRUE BATTLE ROYALE OF ALL TIME:

THE NCO VS THE NWO

James Griffin · #85 10-13-2007, 07:39 PM

THE NEW CHURCH ORDER VS THE NEW WORLD ORDER

Written by James Griffin, ESQ, on Thursday, 02 August 2007

“In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."
- Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, Time Magazine, July 20th, l992

"It is the system of nationalist individualism that has to go....We are living in the end of the sovereign states....In the great struggle to evoke a Westernized World Socialism, contemporary governments may vanish....Countless people...will hate the new world order....and will die protesting against it." - H.G. Wells, “The New World Order”, 1940

“We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." David Rockefeller, Bilderberg Meeting, June 1991 Baden, Germany

“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." David Rockefeller

None of these statements should be particularly shocking to the student of scripture. The Book of Revelation tells us there will be a one world government. Supporting this one world government will be a one world church whose sole object of adoration will be the man at the head of that government (namely the Anti-Christ). Neither is there anything “new” about this goal, nor its underlying philosophy of Humanism. A brief but perhaps oversimplified definition of the term Humanism is “The rejection of religion in favor of a belief in the advancement of humanity by its own efforts.” This system of thought attaches prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Most historians date this worldview back to around 500 BC in Eastern school of Confucianism and also in sixth century BC in the Western (Greek) philosophy. Adherents of the Greek rationalist school of thought include luminaries such as Democritus (the father of atomic theory) and Pythagoras (author of the Pythagorean theory, a cornerstone of modern math). However, the philosophy actually goes back much farther.

Shortly into the antediluvian period (approximately 3,000 BC) there arose a world leader named Nimrod (it is believed his name comes from a verb meaning “let us revolt”). He founded several cities, among them Nineveh and Babel. It was at Babel that mankind gathered for the purpose of building a great city and a great tower. The purpose of the tower was to glorify man, and this was at a time when the entire world was of one language. It was at Babel the Bible says God created confusion by giving them different languages and they were scattered throughout the world.

Mankind still has an inherent need to gather, form, and dwell in great communities. This craving has reached the place where the United Nations state that by the year 2008 over half of the world’s population will dwell in large cities (for the first time in human history!). There is nothing inherently evil with dwelling in large cities. It is even God’s final intention to build a city for man. Also, even in the Old Testament Abraham was searching for a city whose builder and maker was God. However, man’s cities cater to the sensual. They are places where the soul can find art and music, and where businesses supply every craving of the body. But as opposed to body and soul, the craving for the tower was spiritual.

The tower was to be built with the intent “let us make a name for ourselves”. This is the central theme and spirit of Humanism: “Glory to Mankind, for Man is the measure of all things”. Within the heart of Man there still exists the desire to recreate a modern version of Babel. This will be in the form of a utopian, one world system, where man is glorified, and whose main “weapon” will be absolute control of the world economy.

It should also be noted that technology has finally caught up with prophecy. A one world cashless global economy is not only possible, but now pragmatic. Computers exist which can number every individual human, and track every single transaction in the world. It will also be very easy to deny participation in this world economy to individuals who do not totally share the worldview of its leaders. As far as the New World Order creating this one world government and one world economy the Bible says that it will be successful, albeit but for a short time. A crisis will come as Rockefeller stated above, be it an economic apocalypse, biological terror, or other real or manufactured “catastrophe” and the New World Order will be embraced.

The doctrine of the New Church Order is by comparison relatively young, a mere two thousand years. Paul explained it in Hebrews Chapter Seven. There he expounded on a new order of priesthood, that of Melchizedek, which supersedes the Levitical priesthood. Paul taught that Jesus, even though he came from the kingly tribe of Judah, was THE High Priest of this new order. And taught that the Levites (through Abraham) even paid tithes to this order. Paul’s main thrust however was to point out the death of rote and ritual as a means to come into the presence of God. (Each believer is part of that royal priesthood, through Christ the High Priest of this order, and the King of Kings). Succinctly stated, grace and power replaced legalistic ritual.

While most would not consider H.G. Wells to be a particularly spiritual prophet his quote above regarding the New World Order will hold true: “countless people will die opposing it”. While we recognize there are many giftings, and even understandings within our fellowship there are some basic tenets that are immutable, and shall not be compromised even at the price of martyrdom.

Among these tenets: There is only One God, the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Mankind is born into sin and thus doomed to be eternally separated from the Holy God. The only hope of reconciliation is through the recognition of the blood of Jesus Christ as propitiation for sin, and acceptance of Christ’s total Lordship in every area of life. These are among the tenets of faith which place the true Christian in direct opposition to the ecumenical philosophy permeating our world, which teaches that all religions are equal, like spokes of a wheel and any path leading one “to be a better person” is equally valid. For the New World Order to be established all who sincerely hold these Christian dogmas will have to be “converted” or eliminated.

It is the world-wide religious status quo which will acquiesce to the New World Order (those who have a form of godliness but deny the power, thereof.) In North America especially, the norm is to number those who believe in a Judeo-Christian ethic (in other words nominal Christians i.e. I am basically a “good person”) as being the same as true Christ followers (blood washed, spirit filled, striving to conform to the image of Christ). The difference between the two is as marked as that between the new order priesthood of Melchizedek and the old order priesthood of Levi. The literal end of time as we know it is near and the “new order” is being raised and empowered to gather the final harvest before the end of the Grace Dispensation.

God is calling for a complete restoration of New Testament miracles, signs, wonders and the five fold ministry. Whether you choose to be part of the fellowship literally known as the New Church Order, remain independent, or work within the structure of a denomination is not paramount, becoming a harvester of souls is. There is no middle ground, neutrality is not an option. It will neither be granted by Christ nor Anti-Christ. The time approaches to choose allegiance: either with the coming New World Order or those of the “New Church Order”.

Rhoni · #86 10-14-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

God is calling for a complete restoration of New Testament miracles, signs, wonders and the five fold ministry. Whether you choose to be part of the fellowship literally known as the New Church Order, remain independent, or work within the structure of a denomination is not paramount, becoming a harvester of souls is. There is no middle ground, neutrality is not an option. It will neither be granted by Christ nor Anti-Christ. The time approaches to choose allegiance: either with the coming New World Order or those of the “New Church Order”.

Jim,

I went to NCO site and read it as well as your article and the things you have contributed here. I do agree with you that we are coming into a new time and there is no place for neutrality or sitting on the fence.

In the past few years things have been happening in the spirit across the globe, and locally there has been a change. There has been a change in me; more focused prayer, fighting more intense spiritualy warfare, and having things come against the church and prayer warriors in particular that have been unheard of until now.

Prophecies have went out over many of us, God is putting us in place to be activists for Christ during this endtime. People don't like talking about the supernatural or the 'spiritual' but it is a reality.

I think I have told this on another thread but can't remember where. I was taking a CPR class in the community given by Red Cross. there was a very loud woman across the room who kept looking at me and targeting me. During break she came up to me and said that she felt I was spiritual. I looked her in the eye and said, "I am." I also said, "I know your spirit to and it has no power here." She shut her mouth and didn't say a word the rest of the day.

We need to know what we believe, in whom we believe, and just what power has been given unto us to fight in these last days.

Great article Jim.

Blessings, Rhonda

P.S. I shared something with Sis. Falla that happened to me last week but did not give her the rest of the story:

A prophet prophesied over me a couple years ago that the devil was trying to destroy me through car accidents. This prophet did not know me or know of me. He did not know about the car accident I had in 1991 that almost claimed my life. What he did say was that God was not going to allow the devil to kill me.

With that said, The first day on my new job: September 10, 2007 I was sitting at red light and a Chevy truck driven by an older gentleman hit me from the rear knocking me into the one in front of me, knocking him into the one in front of him. The man in front of me said that he saw it coming but knew that I didn't. The man who slammed into me doing about 45-50 mph got out and said that he jsut wasn't paying attention and didn't see us stopped.

My car was in the shop getting fixed until last Wednesday. I picked it up at 6:15 and went 1 block to the Target store to get some thank-you cards, and was in there approx. 45 minutes. When I came out my car had been keyed from the driver's side all the way to the rear of the bumper. The Target patrolman called the police and I made a police report and they went in to look at the serveillance tape of the parking lot.

Yesterday I went into the store to check on the report. The tape caught me getting out of the car, walking around it, smiling, and entering the store. I walked around the car admiring the new paint job and new hubcaps, front and tail lights and it looked brand new. They said they watched the full 45 minutes until I went back out to the car. They said not one person even walked by the car. I was in a handicap parking space so there was not parking place beside it. The patrolman was the one telling me this and said he just couldn't figure it out. I was being sent a message and I am not afraid of the devil because God has his hand on me.

For those who don't believe in such things...well, that is your perogative but I make the devil mad. God is going to open a door no man can shut. The prophet also prophesied healing over my emotions...the healing is coming. When it is complete God is going to put me in the position he has meant for me to be in all along. It isn't about bringing glory to self but about my willingness to serve him in this last day...no matter what.