Dear Kansas Preacher,

[Nahum]

I appreciate you, and wish you would stay.

I have not been around as long as you have, but I can understand the sense of vestment you have felt toward the organization, and how hurt you must be at the direction we have taken.

I wish you nothing but the richest favor of God.

PP

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I appreciate you, and wish you would stay.

I have not been around as long as you have, but I can understand the sense of vestment you have felt toward the organization, and how hurt you must be at the direction we have taken.

I wish you nothing but the richest favor of God.

PP

I can understand, also, how difficult this must be on those who have invested their tears, sweat, finances, time and lives into the organization. I'm sure they will prayerfully make the proper decisions and do what their conscience dictates.

[J-Roc]

[Barb]

Integrity is a precious thing. It's value in the life of anyone, and in particular in ministry, cannot be measured in human understanding.

So valuable is integrity that it cannot and should not be discarded or treated lightly, for when it is gone, it is almost impossible to retrieve it.

I admire those who stand firm in convictions and don't warble between "is it sin or weight?!" For everyone who follows their own will and deceptive way, there are many more who will not bend or bow.

In my almost 56 years of living I have known many with this virtue, and there are many on this board with this God given integrity, as well many more in the United Pentecostal Church who are not a part of this forum.

The decisions you will make in the days to come may not be easy, but I pray they will be in the divine will of the Lord.

Whatever you decide, may you know that the Church of the living God is with you, praying God speed.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I can understand, also, how difficult this must be on those who have invested their tears, sweat, finances, time and lives into the organization. I'm sure they will prayerfully make the proper decisions and do what their conscience dictates.

I don't understand it....well first of all I don't understand such an emotional attachment to an organization of men that was meant to unify us to be stronger so we can spread the Apostolic message everywhere. This resolution does not change that at all. If anything it enhances it. The org though became more about control then it did about unifying to spread the gospel.

I think we lost sight of what the organization was supposed to be to begin with. We looked at the org as a means of controlling others. We grew an organization rather than allowing the organization to facilitate spreading the word. As a result we fell way behind other orgs like the AOG. We worried more about growing the organization, adding more rules to it. We worried about politics. We failed to understand what the organization was for to begin with.

My oppinion

[mizpeh]

I hope and pray that all the conservatives will prayerfully consider what you may be about to do. You don't have to compromise your convictions to remain in fellowship with those who hold to the basic tenets of your faith. A walk of love and tolerance will create a bridge between the things that divide you. I pray God will give you peace, guidance, and blessing in whatever decision you make.

[Brett Prince]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't understand it....well first of all I don't understand such an emotional attachment to an organization of men that was meant to unify us to be stronger so we can spread the Apostolic message everywhere. This resolution does not change that at all. If anything it enhances it. The org though became more about control then it did about unifying to spread the gospel.

I think we lost sight of what the organization was supposed to be to begin with. We looked at the org as a means of controlling others. We grew an organization rather than allowing the organization to facilitate spreading the word. As a result we fell way behind other orgs like the AOG. We worried more about growing the organization, adding more rules to it. We worried about politics. We failed to understand what the organization was for to begin with.

My oppinion

Prax, respectfully, I think you miss the point.

Men have placed great sweat, tears, blood, energy, money, etc., into camp grounds, Bible colleges, church buildings, all the time believing that they were giving to something they believed in ardently. Now, they feel that all their work has been hijacked, or that their father's and mother's work, or their old pastor's work, has been hijacked, and now all of these assets to the Kingdom is being handed over to those who don't hold to the values that they hold to. It feels like theft. It makes them feel violated. It is NOT the org. It is what they have put INTO the org, and cannot have if they leave. If they want to keep the use of these things, they have to be willing to be part of something that believes differently than they--that has a lifestyle different from their own. They see the path now towards even more things that they don't believe in. It hurts them deeply.

These are good men. These are men who have preached a message that you have received, and likely would have never found had they not. These are men who had little chance for education but wanted better for the next generation of preachers. Some of these know what it is like to sleep in a tent, set on a rough hewn pew, and sweat with air conditioning, but through their labor of love--in their olden age they were going to enjoy something better, and their children, both physically and spiritually would do the same.

But, I am almost certain that these men will walk away, heads held high, a tear in their eye, and with a heavy heart--but they will not attempt to destroy that which they have loved. I believe they will go in peace. And, may the Lord richly bless them. They are MEN.

Sorry to wax so passionate, but this is a day that shall be long remembered. I choose to stay, but my hat is off to those who helped make us what we are, but who will no longer be among us. I am saddened, but I am encouraged by their strength and conviction.

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I appreciate you, and wish you would stay.

I have not been around as long as you have, but I can understand the sense of vestment you have felt toward the organization, and how hurt you must be at the direction we have taken.

I wish you nothing but the richest favor of God.

PP

Pastor Poster,

Thank you for your very kind words. I just recieved a VERY touching phone call from a long-time friend who said many of the same things. I assure you this is NOT a "knee-jerk" reaction.

For the sake of those who do not read "Thad's Tab," I will give a little more insight into my personal decision by posting here what I posted there. The thread stated that I had promised to "leave as soon as it passed." Furthermore, someone stated they "hoped I DID leave." Here is my response.

-----------------------

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.

Leaving the United Pentecostal Church after being a part (as either a saint in a local assembly, or a licensed minister) for more than 35 years is not an easy thing for me. It is not something I have longed for, desired, hoped for, or wanted. I have watched this drift and grieved.

I was a new convert when the Hanby/Phillips issue was raging. I wrote a letter to Mark Hanby (I was only 14) telling me how it broke my heart (literally) to learn he was advertising on TV. I told him of the double standard that it created. I was DEEPLY hurt by his decision. If the United Pentecostal Church had voted to accept television advertising in the 1970's, I would never have sought license in the first place. Now that it has reversed its stand, I do not feel I can remain a member.

I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Pastor Poster,

Thank you for your very kind words. I just recieved a VERY touching phone call from a long-time friend who said many of the same things. I assure you this is NOT a "knee-jerk" reaction.

For the sake of those who do not read "Thad's Tab," I will give a little more insight into my personal decision by posting here what I posted there. The thread stated that I had promised to "leave as soon as it passed." Furthermore, someone stated they "hoped I DID leave." Here is my response.

-----------------------

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.


I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

I really don't think this allowance will make any difference in the UPC as you have known it...and I think you guys should hide and watch and give it time to prove that before you surrender that card...

[SDG]

Will Wholehearted take the same approach?