Can someone please tell me...?!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I haven't heard the "one stepper/three stepper" phrase for years, thanks Sam! You've hit the ball out of the park on this one.

And, for Barb and others: I offer this by way of semi-introduction. I resigned my post and my credentials back in the late '90s but I still have family whose ministries I do not wish to impact at all with my online ravings.

My own father-in-the-gospel was from the PCI and PAW tradition but ardently supported the "three steeper" way. I didn't really realize it until years later, but I think his background may help to explain his behavior and just how hard he was toward people he perceived as being "soft." It's like he was trying to compensate for having been of the PCI way of thinking when everything around him seemed to be changing.

I also knew the men that forced the '92 resolution through. I knew, and still know many of their family members quite well. FWIW.

For years I sat and socialized with the most "conservative" elements of the UPC. These are generally good Christian gentlemen (and ladies) who almost always showed me kindness and support. However, there was one button that you could push and they would rip your head off. It was this whole PCI/PAJC or "1 stepper/3 stepper" issue and especially who was being "soft" or "weak." There was a definite culture of "toughness" there that has gone on to flavor the entire fellowship with what I find to be a bitter taste.

When they did rip my head off, it was in an attempt to "save the ministry" of one of their cohorts. I refused to play along, an innocent man was killed and I left the organization after having tried to force my card into the ear of my presbyter (figuratively speaking, of course).

About the card and the ear, figuratively speaking... the rest was all too real and probably plays a big part in why I must see a cardiologist so often. After all that, I just couldn't see how "God" was playing any active role in what I was doing as a part of the UPC.

I was only small potatoes, but if you ever taught a Home Bible Study with "official" material or sat through a general conference in the 80's and early 90's, you saw me or held my pic in your hands. I was there. I watched. I listened. And I participated with everything that I had to give.

And I watched as good men were destroyed right up until they tried to do me in as well. But how did they fare? The man who replaced me in the local church is reading this post (if he can get it at all) from his jail cell in Texas. The adulterous man went ahead and ran off with his secretary even after he had so much help in covering it up.

I dunno, maybe God really is there? But I have to see a cardiologist for another follow up echo-cardiogram in a couple of weeks. And it turns out one of my fondest friends, still strong in the UPC, has a similar condition.

I don't blame "Bishop X" (or whoever) for what happened. I say WE and US.

We did this. What We are we are because of OUR behavior. I'll go ahead and name a name here - The group of about 100 men came into the auditorium at GC in 1992 and began yelling "Question! Question!" how come the rest of us didn't jump right up and join them?

I believe that was a pivotal moment for the UPC and WE let God down, as well as leaving DR and those men to slowly twist in the wind.

WE were wrong.

Pelathais, your post has caused me to weep once again over this issue. If this thread has caused you any grief, I offer my sincere and heartfelt apologies. My grief over what I didn't know cannot be compared to your personal expereince.

What have we done in the name of being RIGHT...or trying to be right or thinking we are right?!

My heart is heavy tonight, but I asked, didn't I?!

God bless you, sir, and thank you and Sam for opening my eyes re some very important issues. I have not heard events uttered quite this way and it is heart wrenching...

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

pelthais, Was JD the one who suggested Hitler was the Antichrist in that series?

I remember back in Bible college a good friend was wound up on that for a few weeks.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Barb

Pelathais, do you have any further info re Bro. Dearing?!

Well, I looked at that old binder last night and I was wrong. Of the 250 Bible Studies that all prospective UPC ministers had to read and study, exactly 100 were written by J.H.D.

That binder is still available in a newer format at "the Pub" but for whatever reason Brother Dearing's contribution is not credited. Only E. Rohn is ever listed as the author, even though E. Rohn wrote 100 of the studies just as Brother Dearing.

My suspicious nature tells me <a brother> (or someone like him, but probably <a brother>) at the Publishing House smiles quietly to himself about the way no controversy was raised by the "conservatives" about that book - and that controversy was avoided by the intentional omission of J.H.D. from the cover. That's just my guess, and probably not good information, but I know the kinds of "controversy" that plagued the guys at "the Pub."

Hey BOOM! Remember "the PUB" and going to "the PUB?" There, now I've given the game away. BOOM and I were just stray eaglets with scrawny wings back then...

Hmm... do I spill the beans on BOOM? ... Did you know that for years BOOM lived just outside Las Vegas - AT THE SECRET UFO BASE: AREA 51?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Well, I looked at that old binder last night and I was wrong. Of the 250 Bible Studies that all prospective UPC ministers had to read and study, exactly 100 were written by J.H.D.

That binder is still available in a newer format at "the Pub" but for whatever reason Brother Dearing's contribution is not credited. Only E. Rohn is ever listed as the author, even though E. Rohn wrote 100 of the studies just as Brother Dearing.

My suspicious nature tells me <a brother> (or someone like him, but probably <a brother>) at the Publishing House smiles quietly to himself about the way no controversy was raised by the "conservatives" about that book - and that controversy was avoided by the intentional omission of J.H.D. from the cover. That's just my guess, and probably not good information, but I know the kinds of "controversy" that plagued the guys at "the Pub."

Hey BOOM! Remember "the PUB" and going to "the PUB?" There, now I've given the game away. BOOM and I were just stray eaglets with scrawny wings back then...

Hmm... do I spill the beans on BOOM? ... Did you know that for years BOOM lived just outside Las Vegas - AT THE SECRET UFO BASE: AREA 51?

No, my Dad worked there. I never went on the bus tour for fear they would suspect dishonesty. I understand it was quite a tour! I moved before the National Atomic Musuem was opened too.

I remember working all night for Home Missions putting together binders for one of the first Evangelism Seminars. I still have it in the garage.
With most everything else I have collected for 25 yrs.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

pelthais, Was JD the one who suggested Hitler was the Antichrist in that series?

I remember back in Bible college a good friend was wound up on that for a few weeks.

Mussolini. And was I that "friend?" Oh, you said "good friend..."

And I don't remember if it was Dearing, but one of the 3 contributers did; and that was used as one excuse to remove the Binder from the required reading. That thing isn't really search friendly, but the electronic version is.

I can't afford the electronic version until you pay me the money that you were going to hand off in the airport back during the Reagan administration. Boy did that deal go south. How did you ever handle the Sandinistas after that?

(Is this window the REPLY for the public post or the private IM we're having? Oh well, here goes...)

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I haven't heard the "one stepper/three stepper" phrase for years, thanks Sam! You've hit the ball out of the park on this one.

And, for Barb and others: I offer this by way of semi-introduction. I resigned my post and my credentials back in the late '90s but I still have family whose ministries I do not wish to impact at all with my online ravings.

My own father-in-the-gospel was from the PCI and PAW tradition but ardently supported the "three steeper" way. I didn't really realize it until years later, but I think his background may help to explain his behavior and just how hard he was toward people he perceived as being "soft." It's like he was trying to compensate for having been of the PCI way of thinking when everything around him seemed to be changing.

I also knew the men that forced the '92 resolution through. I knew, and still know many of their family members quite well. FWIW.

For years I sat and socialized with the most "conservative" elements of the UPC. These are generally good Christian gentlemen (and ladies) who almost always showed me kindness and support. However, there was one button that you could push and they would rip your head off. It was this whole PCI/PAJC or "1 stepper/3 stepper" issue and especially who was being "soft" or "weak." There was a definite culture of "toughness" there that has gone on to flavor the entire fellowship with what I find to be a bitter taste.

When they did rip my head off, it was in an attempt to "save the ministry" of one of their cohorts. I refused to play along, an innocent man was killed and I left the organization after having tried to force my card into the ear of my presbyter (figuratively speaking, of course).

About the card and the ear, figuratively speaking... the rest was all too real and probably plays a big part in why I must see a cardiologist so often. After all that, I just couldn't see how "God" was playing any active role in what I was doing as a part of the UPC.

I was only small potatoes, but if you ever taught a Home Bible Study with "official" material or sat through a general conference in the 80's and early 90's, you saw me or held my pic in your hands. I was there. I watched. I listened. And I participated with everything that I had to give.

And I watched as good men were destroyed right up until they tried to do me in as well. But how did they fare? The man who replaced me in the local church is reading this post (if he can get it at all) from his jail cell in Texas. The adulterous man went ahead and ran off with his secretary even after he had so much help in covering it up.

I dunno, maybe God really is there? But I have to see a cardiologist for another follow up echo-cardiogram in a couple of weeks. And it turns out one of my fondest friends, still strong in the UPC, has a similar condition.

I don't blame "Bishop X" (or whoever) for what happened. I say WE and US.

We did this. What We are we are because of OUR behavior. I'll go ahead and name a name here - when The group of about 100 men came into the auditorium at GC in 1992 and began yelling "Question! Question!" how come the rest of us didn't jump right up and join them?

I believe that was a pivotal moment for the UPC and WE let God down, as well as leaving those men to slowly twist in the wind.

WE were wrong.

Pelethais,

Do you think the UPC is changing from those days in 1992?

Do you think 'one steppers' would be given a license?

Do you think those who don't hold to the AS and all its standards such as owning a tv would be given a license?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Barb

God bless you, sir, and thank you and Sam for opening my eyes re some very important issues. I have not heard events uttered quite this way and it is heart wrenching...

Barb, part of the reason I've been lurking around places like this is because of a need I feel for some sort of "therapy." I'm sorry that what I've said has been upsetting, I think you and I are probably on the same page and share some of the same concerns and hurts.

I personally was about ready to throw away my faith altogether at one point. These issues are very touchy and I know that some of the things that I have to say are very damaging. But the ones who would be most damaged are people that I still love very dearly. In speaking out am I just lashing back at them? Do I want to hurt those who have hurt me? What benefit is there for me in hurting people I love?

Those are the actions not of an infidel, but of a brute. Even most "infidels" and atheistic writers I have read were ladies and gentlemen in their conduct (Ayn Rand, Steven J. Gould, Carl Sagan, etc). So what do I do? I sit and watch as my life goes by and see that after a decade I am justified - but there is no real tangible way that I can say that I have benefited. There's been no restoration or healing.

That guy they hired to replace me after I was excommunicated and banished? You can google him and find the embarassment he brought onto the church. But those close to me just sneer at the mention of his name now, they same way they sneered at me 10 years ago. There is no sense that I have been restored or redeemed. One man accused me of being "backslidden."

He said it from the pulpit in front of my children. So I went to the district board and more or less demanded that they give me my license back. It took two years instead of the one - but I was readmitted, all I had to do was to finish the paperwork: which I couldn't do, not with a clear conscience. So I ended looking like a spaz instead of a sinner.

Where have the young UPC men gone? Right now a bunch of us are popping Coreg to stay alive. Oh, and we're not young anymore. We're wiser now. We've learned from our elders and as one man from the East Coast famously put it: We're waiting for a generation to die off so revival can come.

[stmatthew]

I personally think the merger itself was a bad plan. To take two opposing views of salvation, and think you could merge them without either side eventially striving for their side is ludicrous. It was doomed from day 1.

And I understand why it would be the 3-step guys that did the striving. Consider that while the 1-steppers could look at the 3-steppers as ok, but just adding to the message, the 3-steppers could only look at the 1-steppers as not preaching the entire message, thereby giving a false hope of salvation.

Some would say that Love should have prevailed. I agree that there should have been more love and less hate, but but do you join hands in love with those who he feels opposes the message he preaches?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Malvaro

I doubt some have even heard of Bro Pugh, Bro Becton, Bro Cole, etc the oldest living generation of preachers.... they would know of Bro J. Jones, Bro Mangun, Bro Stoneking, Bro Williams, Bro Arnold, Bro Maddix, etc though.... because they would have seen or heard them during their lifetimes....

These (bold) I have heard preach in person, I have heard Stoneking and Arnold on tape, the rest I have not heard as far as I recall. Anthony Mangun was our pastor when he was in Plano, TX.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I personally think the merger itself was a bad plan. To take two opposing views of salvation, and think you could merge them without either side eventially striving for their side is ludicrous. It was doomed from day 1.

And I understand why it would be the 3-step guys that did the striving. Consider that while the 1-steppers could look at the 3-steppers as ok, but just adding to the message, the 3-steppers could only look at the 1-steppers as not preaching the entire message, thereby giving a false hope of salvation.

Some would say that Love should have prevailed. I agree that there should have been more love and less hate, but but do you join hands in love with those who he feels opposes the message he preaches?

just to clarify, I was not posting this to defend either side. I only posted this for understanding purposes only. I have used this thought pattern in the "liberal vs Conservative" war many times. The libs can accept the cons because they only see the cons adding to the message. The cons however, cannot accept the libs because they see the libs as taking away from the message.