What's your view on Hell?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I have had a very good debate with Esaias. He posted many good things and I acknowledged his good points. I have also flooded this thread with Scripture and explanations. Where have you been?

I see that you never acknowledged what I pointed out in your post. You admitted that the story of Eliezer/Lazarus is the only place where you can use as a place of torments. Yet, you can't find anywhere a place called "Bosom of Abraham" is found in the Old Testament. Death was a state of sleeping in the Old Testament. The dead weren't aware of anything because of their state of sleeping in death. In John 11:11 Jesus explains this to His followers. How do you have Abraham, Eliezer/Lazarus and the rich man awake in an after life, and Jesus explaining that in Lazarus (brother of Martha, and Mary) is asleep, and needed to be brought back from the dead was to be awakened?

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I see that you never acknowledged what I pointed out in your post. You admitted that the story of Eliezer/Lazarus is the only place where you can use as a place of torments. Yet, you can't find anywhere a place called "Bosom of Abraham" is found in the Old Testament. Death was a state of sleeping in the Old Testament. The dead weren't aware of anything because of their state of sleeping in death. In John 11:11 Jesus explains this to His followers. How do you have Abraham, Eliezer/Lazarus and the rich man awake in an after life, and Jesus explaining that in Lazarus (brother of Martha, and Mary) is asleep, and needed to be brought back from the dead was to be awakened?

Spirits don’t lay in a “dust of the earth” bed, unconsciously sleeping, only the body can. Jesus called death “sleep” along with the book of Daniel. Jesus elaborated on death sleeping in the story. Saints in Rev, pre resurrection are spoken of by John as speaking and being spoken to. The puzzle is only complete if you use all the pieces.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Spirits don’t lay in a bed, unconsciously sleeping . Jesus called death “sleep” along with the book of Daniel. Jesus elaborated on death sleeping in the story. Saints in Rev, pre resurrection are spoken of by John as speaking and being spoken to . The puzzle is only complete if you use all the pieces.

Ok, so you don't believe the Old Testament where the dead were sleeping with their fathers (ancestors). That Jesus explains to His followers that He was about to awaken someone who was sleeping DEAD. Jesus said they were unconscious as in sleep state. Ecclesiastes 9:5 is plain in its statement that the dead are unconscious of anything. Again, you bring up Revelation 6:9, as to say that it is literal, therefore you must believe that under an altar is also a holding place for deceased souls? Yes? No? Why didn't the writer tell us in Revelation 6:9 that these souls were in Abraham's Bosom? The writer doesn't tell us anything like that because there is no place of the dead called 'Abraham's Bosom." Also we have no holding place of the dead under an altar explained to us anywhere else in the Bible. So, you like others who butcher the Biblical text to prove your religious rantings you simply disregard the need to find primary sources in the scripture to prove a "holding place" for the dead. That the grave isn't what Solomon explained it to be, a place of unconsciousness. But a Roman Catholic purgatory.

Sean, doctrine is the least of your worries.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Ok, so you don't believe the Old Testament where the dead were sleeping with their fathers (ancestors). That Jesus explains to His followers that He was about to awaken someone who was sleeping DEAD. Jesus said they were unconscious as in sleep state. Ecclesiastes 9:5 is plain in its statement that the dead are unconscious of anything. Again, you bring up Revelation 6:9, as to say that it is literal, therefore you must believe that under an altar is also a holding place for deceased souls? Yes? No? Why didn't the writer tell us in Revelation 6:9 that these souls were in Abraham's Bosom? The writer doesn't tell us anything like that because there is no place of the dead called 'Abraham's Bosom." Also we have no holding place of the dead under an altar explained to us anywhere else in the Bible. So, you like others who butcher the Biblical text to prove your religious rantings you simply disregard the need to find primary sources in the scripture to prove a "holding place" for the dead. That the grave isn't what Solomon explained it to be, a place of unconsciousness. But a Roman Catholic purgatory.

Sean, doctrine is the least of your worries.

Rene.

Spirits are not laying in dust.

[1 God]

The body goes back to dust particles and the spirit is back to the place for spirits.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by 1 God

The body goes back to dust particles and the spirit is back to the place for spirits.

So, raptured dirt in the future?

[Amanah]

at creation man was formed from the dust and given the breath of life

Genesis 2:7 ESV
then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living creature.

At death man returns to the dust of the earth and ceases to breathe.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Alter
And dust returns to the earth as it was, and the life-breath returns to God Who gave it.

Strong’s Definition of spirit H7307:
רוּחַ rûwach, roo'-akh; from H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):—air, anger, blast, breath, × cool, courage, mind, × quarter, × side, spirit(-ual), tempest, × vain, (whirl-) wind(-y).

At the Trumpet sound, the dead in Christ will be resurrected to meet Jesus in the air and will always be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

Until the resurection we are just dust, dead in the grave.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Amanah

at creation man was formed from the dust and given the breath of life

Genesis 2:7 ESV
then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living creature.

At death man returns to the dust of the earth and ceases to breathe.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Alter
And dust returns to the earth as it was, and the life-breath returns to God Who gave it.

Strong’s Definition of spirit H7307:
רוּחַ rûwach, roo'-akh; from H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):—air, anger, blast, breath, × cool, courage, mind, × quarter, × side, spirit(-ual), tempest, × vain, (whirl-) wind(-y).

At the Trumpet sound, the dead in Christ will be resurrected to meet Jesus in the air and will always be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

[COLOR="Red"]Until the resurection we are just dust, dead in the grave.[/COLOR]

So does that mean, are we separated from the Lord?

Also, what do you do with this verse?

Mark 12:27
[27]He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

All this talk about death, what about being dead as a individual in sin?

Ephesians 2:1-6
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

*Blue Highlighted
That’s in the past tense. Those that have been made alive were once dead in our sin.

*Red Highlighted
From the time our “resurrection” ie salvation in Acts 2:38 we now sit with Christ in Heavenly places.

If I’m understanding correctly, your understanding is, we’re raised to new life through salvation in Jesus, we’re able to live a holy overcoming life on this earth walking in the newness of life. Then when die, we’re separated from the lord and we’re just in the ground waiting for some future court day in the heavens.

[Amanah]

Nic,

When dead, we are asleep in Jesus until the resurection We are asleep as in unconscious and unaware. We will awake in his likeness. Psalm 17:15

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[Amanah]

Strongs definition of asleep

G2837
Strong’s Definitions
κοιμάω koimáō, koy-mah'-o; from G2749; to put to sleep, i.e. (passively or reflexively) to slumber; figuratively, to decease:—(be a-, fall a-, fall on) sleep, be dead.