The Definition of an Independent

[The Closer]

The best that I have been able to come up with is: Doesnt want to pay dues. Do you think different?

[Hoovie]

How much money are we talking about?? I have heard this before but have a hard time believing it.

[Consapostolic1]

Self-supporting

not needing a social group's blessing to spread the gospel...

Aw come on you guys... the definition is quoted here all the time... Definition of an Independent: it ain't smoke if it ain't coming out of my chimney! LOL

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by philjones

Aw come on you guys... the definition is quoted here all the time... Definition of an Independent: it ain't smoke if it ain't coming out of my chimney! LOL

good one!

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by The Closer

The best that I have been able to come up with is: Doesnt want to pay dues. Do you think different?

Independents I've talked to compare district presbyterships to "having kings and lords over you."

That may be true, but when the Independent pastor goes ape-poo-on-the-brain (entertains deviant theology) his parishoners are without recourse. One guy losing it results in a whole church set adrift, if not worse.

At least with an organization, the lay leaders can petition the district. But it isn't as though a letter or two results in "district stormtroopers" evicting errant pastors from office and parsonage. UPC pastors serve according to the by-laws of their local assembly, and those by-laws can be modified to the benefit of a pastor.

It's more of an accountability group than tiers of management, at least what I've seen of it. And the good-ole'-boys club can come in to play with this and generate coverups and worse.

Neither system is perfect. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

But organizational affiliation offers greater assurance of doctrinal continuity to the congregation, admittedly at the expense of the "job security" of the pastor.

So my take on Independents is that they are railing against an inaccurate construct.

[TalkLady]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

not needing a social group's blessing to spread the gospel...

That's a start on a good definition!!!....Maybe it's someone not willing to play religious politics. Jesus Christ was very independent when he walked on earth!!

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Independents I've talked to compare district presbyterships to "having kings and lords over you."

That may be true, but when the Independent pastor goes ape-poo-on-the-brain (entertains deviant theology) his parishoners are without recourse. One guy losing it results in a whole church set adrift, if not worse.

At least with an organization, the lay leaders can petition the district. But it isn't as though a letter or two results in "district stormtroopers" evicting errant pastors from office and parsonage. UPC pastors serve according to the by-laws of their local assembly, and those by-laws can be modified to the benefit of a pastor.

It's more of an accountability group than tiers of management, at least what I've seen of it. And the good-ole'-boys club can come in to play with this and generate coverups and worse.

Neither system is perfect. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

But organizational affiliation offers greater assurance of doctrinal continuity to the congregation, admittedly at the expense of the "job security" of the pastor.

So my take on Independents is that they are railing against an inaccurate construct.

Without recourse? Have their legs been cut off and only the errant Pastor pushes their wheelchair? Come on you can walk from any organization when the leadership goes gaga.

I do agree that "both have their strengths and weaknesses."

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Without recourse? Have their legs been cut off and only the errant Pastor pushes their wheelchair? Come on you can walk from any organization when the leadership goes gaga.

I do agree that "both have their strengths and weaknesses."

Yes, without recourse because Independent pastors often own or control the ownership of the church building. So, in the instance of an errant pastor, the congregation loses the blood, sweat, tears, time, materials and cash money they have invested in the church property.

Sure you can leave, but you're leaving close brothers and sisters, and a part of yourself, behind.

An organizationally affiliated church congregation can (theoretically) swap the errant pastor for a (hopefully) truth-loving new pastor in the same church and congregational setting.

Of course in reality pastoral changes are usually associated with mass departures, church splits, blatant nepotism, and other unpleasantness.

The situation offers no easy choices, and, like I said, both systems have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to this.