I have a suspicion that the school principle is the only principles some people believe in. To not realize the bible is full of principles that cover those areas not distinctly spelled out in the bible is to believe the bible is inferior.
I see the value of what you are saying. We seem to excel with rules, but struggle with principles sometimes.
Dear Jesus,
Thank for a post on AFF that so fully encapsulates my lament.
....
it seems like the biggest 'litmus test ' for carnal vs. spiritual mindedness, pertaining to the origins of our speaking, is to consider where the attention is focused.."on a detailed rule" or "on a principle involving motive".
ILG, Hair has some role in the principles God has set for humans to walk in. I am not attempting to assert the "heaven or hell" strategy, but is our debate over the administration of a rule causing us to ignore giving consideration to a principle?
Would you consider sharing your understanding of the role hair plays in God's establishment of the members of his body awaiting deliverence from this present body (of this death)?
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
We have accused other groups such as the JW and the Mormons for using one passage or verse as pretext for doctrine .... yet here we are .... doing the same ....
This issue can be debated a million ways ... it's one of scriptures we don't seem to have THE ANSWER to .... but to make a doctrine out of it is THEOLOGICALLY IRRESPONSIBLE ... whether it be ANGELIC HAIR or UNCUT HAIR.
when faced w/ a scripture we do not understand we must use others that are simpler to make sense of it ....
Scripture is clear on fornication, lying, cheating, stealing ...why? Because there is witness ....
This passage is clearly about the relationship between husband and wife ... there is also a cultural context .... which has also been discussed ....
there is no clear mandate about not cutting hair .... or ... nor can we try to devise one .... anything else is adding to the Word ... for which there are clear consequences.
You never answered my questions Bubba.
1. What does "for this cause" mean?
2. What does "because of the angels" mean?
Dear Jesus,
Thank for a post on AFF that so fully encapsulates my lament.
....
it seems like the biggest 'litmus test ' for carnal vs. spiritual mindedness, pertaining to the origins of our speaking, is to consider where the attention is focused.."on a detailed rule" or "on a principle involving motive".
ILG, Hair has some role in the principles God has set for humans to walk in. I am not attempting to assert the "heaven or hell" strategy, but is our debate over the administration of a rule causing us to ignore giving consideration to a principle?
Would you consider sharing your understanding of the role hair plays in God's establishment of the members of his body awaiting deliverence from this present body (of this death)?
I think the scripture suggests long hair on a woman as a love for God and a position of proper place in the order of creation. It is not a horrible thing. What makes it horrible is legalism and judgment that doesn't belong in the heart of any Christian or movement. The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. Too many people want rules above relationship. Contract instead of covenant.
Long hair, yes. Uncut hair, no. Otherwise a man can have hair three feet down his back and it still be short since he trims it.
But I do agree with Coonskinner's thoughts on the ark and the cherubims, although the idea of cherubims being "angels" is debatable. The cherubims are the four beasts in Rev 5 and they claim they were redeemed from every tribe and nation of men. Angels are not redeemed.
The POWER on the woman's head is the authority of her husband, as her "head" is her personal authority. Since the physical head represents authority, seeing one's MIND is located in one's actual head, the woman's covering on her actual physical head speaks of this submission, indicating that with her husband, she covers her head since he is her head. There is only ONE HEAD on a body. And if a woman is one flesh with her husband, and God made him her head, she indicates that by covering her head. She hides her physical head, as it were, to indicate her husband is her authroity, while his head remains uncovered. A visual message. The important thing si the submission in her spirit.
I have seen women who covered their heads in whatever way they think this chapter teaches -- some hair and some a veil or hat -- but were downright rebellious and unsubmissive to their husbands. The issue is ONLY A SYMBOL. Just as the SYMBOL of bread and wine in the same chapter in communion. But the symbol is still strongly taught here, at any rate. God is very concerned over SOME symbols even now.
Again, I propose this is not hair but a veil. However, in our culture veils do not mean that in the eyes of the people, so the veiling issue is moot in and of itself today.
It is not anointing power in the context, but the power of her husband's authority. The verse is saying she as authority OVER HER. Not magical power exisiting on her physical head.
BECAUSE OF THE ANGELS could mean a few different things, while the passage does not specify which. It could mean the angels are given testimony by the woman that SHE SUBMITS, whereas SOME angels rebelled and fell.
Or it could mean that the angels who are ministering spirits sent to minister and SERVE we who are heirs of salvation cannot properly do their work with us if we are not in submission. If angels SERVE, how can they work with people who do not SUBMIT and SERVE as well, as in the role of a woman obeying her husband?
Elder Blume are you going to teach your artificial veil teaching at your church in California?
I have always wondered about the "because of the angels" portion of this scripture...
But the "For this cause", IMO, is in reference to the previous scripture where it states "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."
It would be treated as would other similar references such as nevertheless, therefore etc which would refer BACK rather than forward.
You are correct. I have never understood why people took the 'for this cause' to be referring to the angels. It's referring to the woman being created for the man. However, I don't understand what the 'because of the angels' verse means, and many scholars don't either.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
You are correct. I have never understood why people took the 'for this cause' to be referring to the angels. It's referring to the woman being created for the man. However, I don't understand what the 'because of the angels' verse means, and many scholars don't either.
That's why ... if theologians can't agree ... I think it's simply fishing to have one's paradigm to fit the Word ....
There isn't enough here to formulate an Angelic Hair or Uncut Hair doctrine ... me thinks that those that seek to interpret "because of the angels" do so to advance their erroneous agenda
This is obviously a widely debated topic, and commentators have varying opinions about it.
Three key words in this passage are angels, covering, and glory.
The first place in the Scripture where we find those three elements in conjunction is the Ark of the Covenant.
Every time the covering (mercy seat) was removed, the angels that stood at either end were displaced, and the Glory that dwelt between them was also displaced...and bad things happened.
I do not believe for a minute that there are any special "hair angels" like the mockers like to assert that Apostolics believe.
I do, however, believe it is reasonable to say that there is a special blessing and perhaps angelic protection afforded to those who walk in obedience to the Scripture. And I believe the Scripture teached for ladies to have uncut hair.
Since the chapter in question is dealing with order of creation, and submission, it is possible that the Apostle was making reference to the example of angels who fell when they would not remain in submission to their nead.
You can call them mockers all you want, but there are Apostolics who believe in 'hair angels'.
I received a phone call yesterday from a friend who was disturbed by a testimony in her church from a woman who said she was thinking of cutting her hair and donating it because she was scheduled for chemo and would lose it anyway, but decided to pray about it and was shown angels holding their breath. When she decided not to cut it, the angels let out a sigh of relief.
She would have been cutting her angels off in cutting her hair, was the assertion.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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