I've never visited, but from what I've read of Turkey is that while it is majority muslim, it is NOT a muslim country. It is a secular country. Sunni muslims make up the majority there, and it's true the current President is a muslim, but it is not considered a muslim government or muslim country.
Ataturk made many changes that did in fact push Turkey toward modernity.
However, his advancements went so far...
the current President (and former PM) Erdogan has been working diligently to roll back those advacements.
Turkey today is moving in the direction of Islamization .
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I guess. I just don't believe muslims want anything to do with either Christianity or Democracy.
I've believed and posted for a while that Bush and other Republicans are wasting time, money and soldier's lives trying to export Democracy to the middle east. Muslims will never accept American Democracy. Never.
The US has to many interests in the middle east to walk away. Our country majority serves mammon and there is a lot of money from those oil rich countries.
I understand the religious liberty argument, and I believe we are blessed more than we may realize by said liberty. However, I also believe that liberty to the extreme is a curse, a trojan horse if you will, that extremists utilize to promote their ideologies.
The real truth is that Islam IS a religion of HATE. No other religion calls for the death of non-believers as does Islam. At least 30+ times the Koran calls for the death of Infidels (which is anyone who does/will not convert to Islam) True muslims, (those who truly follow their holy book and its teachings) have to believe that we are all infidels and as such should be killed.
IMO religious liberty ends when a "faith" calls for the murder of those who do not believe what said group believes. Regardless of the religion (i.e. white supremacist, etc.)
Here are a couple of clips that I think are worth seeing.
I understand the religious liberty argument, and I believe we are blessed more than we may realize by said liberty. However, I also believe that liberty to the extreme is a curse, a trojan horse if you will, that extremists utilize to promote their ideologies.
The real truth is that Islam IS a religion of HATE. No other religion calls for the death of non-believers as does Islam. At least 30+ times the Koran calls for the death of Infidels (which is anyone who does/will not convert to Islam) True muslims, (those who truly follow their holy book and its teachings) have to believe that we are all infidels and as such should be killed.
IMO religious liberty ends when a "faith" calls for the murder of those who do not believe what said group believes. Regardless of the religion (i.e. white supremacist, etc.)
Here are a couple of clips that I think are worth seeing.
Elder you will find more than just your religious freedom go down the tubes if you call for legislation against a religion. As you well know (AFF attests to it) while all call themselves Christians and use the same holy book, a lot of the adherents of the religion plus those outside would give different definitions as to what that means. Therefore making legislation against one religion is problematic. Because while one group within the religion wants to kill everything, others who use the same book have a totally different view.
Let's face it, sometimes WE make Islam to be some sort of perfect religion that everyone is lock step inline with the rest of the religion and they are not. Also how will this prohibition be carried out against the religion? Since the religion is made up of men women and children you would have to make it illegal for the religion to be practiced? Is this what you are proposing we do?
Elder, I can see that these extreme groups will be used as an excuse, to ultimately attempt to remove our freedoms claiming that we must do it in exchange for protection and safety. Which in the long run we will end up neither having safety or protection.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Ok so you agree they are Muslims living in a democracy a SECULAR democracy.
Thank you for playing
Quote:
Originally Posted by n david
I've believed and posted for a while that Bush and other Republicans are wasting time, money and soldier's lives trying to export Democracy to the middle east. Muslims will never accept American Democracy. Never.
Turkey's "democracy" is not American democracy. I hope you understand that. Russia is a "democracy" as well, but it's not American democracy. In both Turkey and Russia, there are not the freedoms we've enjoyed as Americans.
As to why so many muslims come to America. Why not? But you're naive if you believe these people don't have an end game in mind.
Please post where someone, anyone on AFF posted their desire to BAN islam.
I keep seeing a reference to it, but personally have not read a post in which it was done.
AFAIK, no one here is wanting to BAN islam. Rather, what we want is for people to stop pretending islam is a peaceful religion which isn't responsible for almost 100% of the terror attacks in the world today.
I guess. I just don't believe muslims want anything to do with either Christianity or Democracy.
I've believed and posted for a while that Bush and other Republicans are wasting time, money and soldier's lives trying to export Democracy to the middle east. Muslims will never accept American Democracy. Never.
Your first paragraph says Christianity AND Democracy.
So, now you are saying that you specifically meant AMERICAN democratic system???
So should we know also assume you mean AMERICAN Christianity?
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Please post where someone, anyone on AFF posted their desire to BAN islam.
I keep seeing a reference to it, but personally have not read a post in which it was done.
AFAIK, no one here is wanting to BAN islam. Rather, what we want is for people to stop pretending islam is a peaceful religion which isn't responsible for almost 100% of the terror attacks in the world today.
So you don't want it outlawed, you just want Muslims to admit their religion is evil?
What?
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Where did anyone argue that Islam is a religion of peace?
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Linear Mode
