McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Does anybody on this thread actually have a dog in this fight?

Or are we just typical bored Americans looking for vicarious excitement?

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by n david

Why don't you answer my question? You've accused Matthew Davies of being a "criminal."

Was he arrested?

Was he charged with any crime?

Yes or no?

Why do you continue to ignore the question? It's pretty simple, Pilgrim.

If he has been arrested and charged with a crime, post the proof.

If not, you should say so.

To the apologist here is the definition of crook.

noun
: a dishonest person
: a criminal
: the place where part of the body (such as an arm, leg, or finger) bends
4 :a person who engages in fraudulent or criminal practices


Remember you don't have to be caught or charged to be a dishonest or fraudulent person. As for me and my "forgiveness", I am sure glad Jesus is a better more loving person than me. How easy it must be for you as a higher, almost angelic person to tell others how and when they must forgive. I bet you forgive at the drop of a hat. After all you most likly walked in everyone's shoes so you know how it feels to put 31, 19, and 16 years in a church. Giving of time to the ministry, teaching people salvation, praying with souls that cry out for freedom, giving of finances to just be tossed out like trash, tarnished, and told not to talk to the people you've loved for all those years. Why? Because you brought sin and crooked behavior to light? Oh and it was 2 pastors. I see now. It is easy to just pick up the shattered shards of my heart, Jim's and his wife's hearts and say no big deal we forgive. Mind blowing really that I think about it. What was I thinking? Ok I forgive them completely. That still does not absolve them for what they might have to do in the end. Read your Bible a little closer. God uses men to bring forth his judgments in most cases. Throughout the Bible we see story after story how God judges with the sword or the stone. So don't sit there as an apologist for an action that was dishonest and fraudulent in nature. casting judgment on a situation you know nothing about but defend and apologize for. I find it sad you can sue a catholic, baptist, even an Assembly of God saint because they in your eyes don't believe in God. Since he brought suit after he was disfellowshipped then I see no contradiction. If you where to ask these 2 crooks (by definition) I bet they would say he is not a brother. So they got the suit coming to them from just a poor ol' worldly sinner now, so scripture should not apply to them. Enjoy your juice. Jesus would have flipped over the tables a whipped them. Now that is scripture I would have liked to see. And Jesus forgave them as well. But when? Before the beatings or after. You sir, being so forgiving can make that call. I'll be waiting.

[Pilgram199]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I thought they worked to help pay their way through school?

It's all very confusing, and we all know who the author of confusion is. Usually things that are forthright are clear and simple.

[Pilgram199]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I think they should let Jim back in the church just like Jesus would. Do you agree? Or do pastors that run independent get to be the judge and jury unlike what is biblical? They got found out and threw forgiveness out the window now everyone needs to forgive them? Just talked to Jim the other day and he has forgiven. When your child steals from you and apologizes you forgive right? But he will still get his punishment no? Exactly.

IMO, a public apology should be given to Jim. He should be thankful to get out of that place though. I know others who want to leave but can not due to family ties and associations.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

To the apologist here is the definition of crook.

noun
: a dishonest person
: a criminal
: the place where part of the body (such as an arm, leg, or finger) bends
4 :a person who engages in fraudulent or criminal practices


Remember you don't have to be caught or charged to be a dishonest or fraudulent person. As for me and my "forgiveness", I am sure glad Jesus is a better more loving person than me. How easy it must be for you as a higher, almost angelic person to tell others how and when they must forgive. I bet you forgive at the drop of a hat. After all you most likly walked in everyone's shoes so you know how it feels to put 31, 19, and 16 years in a church. Giving of time to the ministry, teaching people salvation, praying with souls that cry out for freedom, giving of finances to just be tossed out like trash, tarnished, and told not to talk to the people you've loved for all those years. Why? Because you brought sin and crooked behavior to light? Oh and it was 2 pastors. I see now. It is easy to just pick up the shattered shards of my heart, Jim's and his wife's hearts and say no big deal we forgive. Mind blowing really that I think about it. What was I thinking? Ok I forgive them completely. That still does not absolve them for what they might have to do in the end. Read your Bible a little closer. God uses men to bring forth his judgments in most cases. Throughout the Bible we see story after story how God judges with the sword or the stone. So don't sit there as an apologist for an action that was dishonest and fraudulent in nature. casting judgment on a situation you know nothing about but defend and apologize for. I find it sad you can sue a catholic, baptist, even an Assembly of God saint because they in your eyes don't believe in God. Since he brought suit after he was disfellowshipped then I see no contradiction. If you where to ask these 2 crooks (by definition) I bet they would say he is not a brother. So they got the suit coming to them from just a poor ol' worldly sinner now, so scripture should not apply to them. Enjoy your juice. Jesus would have flipped over the tables a whipped them. Now that is scripture I would have liked to see. And Jesus forgave them as well. But when? Before the beatings or after. You sir, being so forgiving can make that call. I'll be waiting.

Looks like a tooth has been drilled way too deep once again, on Apostolic Offended Forum.

Hey, every man's own burden is the heaviest, and we all have or cuts and bruises from life whether in our out of the church. But n david is just giving a sensible view on all of this, and the facts are as my buddy Esaias posted, no one has a dog in this fight. So, in other words we don't have both sides posting here in order to know what exactly went on. Yet, it seems that on this forum we sure have quite a few individuals who have contemplated much on the tree of woe. But forgiveness is so much easier then carrying around the burden of wanting to incinerate those who have offended you. Let's keep in mind that unless we forgive we have no salvation, and since you admonish others to look at the Bible closer maybe you should again look at the part which says we aren't to take each other to court of the world but handle this among the church? Anyway, we are admonished to forgive the same way we want to be forgiven by God. Jesus has forgiven us our debts, so we better be wise enough to forgive others their debts against us.

Kapeesh?

[n david]

Paragraphs are your friend.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

To the apologist here is the definition of crook.

noun
: a dishonest person
: a criminal
: the place where part of the body (such as an arm, leg, or finger) bends
4 :a person who engages in fraudulent or criminal practices

Wow. I wish I were like you and never, not once, been dishonest, driven faster than the speed limit or broken any other traffic or other law. You are awesome!

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Remember you don't have to be caught or charged to be a dishonest or fraudulent person.

If that's how you want to excuse your slander. It's funny. You and pilgrim are angry at these Pastors for their alleged slander, yet you guys call them criminals when they've never been arrested or charged with a crime. They were given a civil penalty and you act like they murdered someone.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

As for me and my "forgiveness", I am sure glad Jesus is a better more loving person than me.

You and me both!

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

How easy it must be for you as a higher, almost angelic person to tell others how and when they must forgive. I bet you forgive at the drop of a hat. After all you most likly walked in everyone's shoes so you know how it feels to put 31, 19, and 16 years in a church. Giving of time to the ministry, teaching people salvation, praying with souls that cry out for freedom, giving of finances to just be tossed out like trash, tarnished, and told not to talk to the people you've loved for all those years. Why? Because you brought sin and crooked behavior to light?

You don't know my testimony, and I'm not going to share it on here. I was Jim Goings, only I didn't do what many around me wanted me to do and file a lawsuit. I'm glad I didn't. God settled the issue better than a lawsuit would have. I don't believe myself to be better than anyone, but yes, I've been there. I'm not trying to tell you to do something I haven't done myself. I'm still picking up pieces from what happened long ago.

You can choose to be bitter and angry, vindictive and seeking for vengence. Or you can choose to forgive. The first choice is the easy one. The second choice has a reward with it.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Oh and it was 2 pastors. I see now. It is easy to just pick up the shattered shards of my heart, Jim's and his wife's hearts and say no big deal we forgive. Mind blowing really that I think about it. What was I thinking? Ok I forgive them completely. That still does not absolve them for what they might have to do in the end.

Whatever "they might have to do in the end" shouldn't matter to you or the Goings. THEY (the Pastors), not you, will have to stand before God and account for every word spoken and every action done.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Read your Bible a little closer. God uses men to bring forth his judgments in most cases. Throughout the Bible we see story after story how God judges with the sword or the stone. So don't sit there as an apologist for an action that was dishonest and fraudulent in nature. casting judgment on a situation you know nothing about but defend and apologize for.

"By definition" we're both apologists. So you believe you and Goings are God's instruments of judgement on these Pastors? BTW, I don't defend what they did. In case you missed it, I've said they were wrong for their actions. I'm not so much defending them as I'm trying to help you.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I find it sad you can sue a catholic, baptist, even an Assembly of God saint because they in your eyes don't believe in God. Since he brought suit after he was disfellowshipped then I see no contradiction. If you where to ask these [two Pastors] I bet they would say he is not a brother. So they got the suit coming to them from just a poor ol' worldly sinner now, so scripture should not apply to them. Enjoy your juice. Jesus would have flipped over the tables a whipped them. Now that is scripture I would have liked to see. And Jesus forgave them as well. But when? Before the beatings or after. You sir, being so forgiving can make that call. I'll be waiting.

I remember reading of Jesus cleansing the temple, but I must have missed the part where He beat them. I don't doubt you would love to see these men being beaten.

Look, it's obvious you're trying to find any excuse you can to continue your pursuit of vengence against these men. I'm done trying to dissuade you from it. Enjoy your quest for vengence.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

Look, it's obvious you're trying to find any excuse you can to continue your pursuit of vengence against these men. I'm done trying to dissuade you from it. Enjoy your quest for vengence.

You nailed it.

[Pilgram199]

Originally Posted by n david

Why don't you answer my question?

Was he arrested?

Was he charged with any crime?

Yes or no?

Why do you continue to ignore the question? It's pretty simple, Pilgrim.

If he has been arrested and charged with a crime, post the proof.

If not, you should say so.

First, I see your point and in this case the paper does not report that he was arrested. The term I probably should have used is "an unlawful person". Is that better?

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Does anybody on this thread actually have a dog in this fight?

Or are we just typical bored Americans looking for vicarious excitement?

I've been wondering about the entire point of this thread for a while now, especially when I got this PM from pilgram199 (what is a 'pilgram' anyway?) back on the 14th.

Originally Posted by Pilgram199

I'm a new member and can not post yet. I think people should know about this. Can you post it?

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ccused_in.html

He was in such a hurry to post it, he didn't even want to wait for the admins to approve his account so he could do it himself.

[Pilgram199]

[QUOTE=n david;1374563]

"You don't know my testimony, and I'm not going to share it on here. I was Jim Goings, only I didn't do what many around me wanted me to do and file a lawsuit. I'm glad I didn't. God settled the issue better than a lawsuit would have. I don't believe myself to be better than anyone, but yes, I've been there. I'm not trying to tell you to do something I haven't done myself. I'm still picking up pieces from what happened long ago."

Good point, thanks for sharing this personal experience. Besides forgive what else did you do? Are you still under that pastor? This info. might help Jim if he's reading.