McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Pilgram199]

Pray for the church in McMinnville Oregon.


http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ccused_in.html

[n david]

Pastors have to be very careful what they say in front of the congregation these days. The days of publicly admonishing someone are in the past.

IMO, Pastors and churches should be protected from lawsuits like this.

[Pilgram199]

I think the bigger issue is the Pastor & his son's violation of child labor laws in their business. Shows a lack of ethics IMO

[Holy Ghost HH]

The two problems in this situation in my opinion are;
1. The lack of ethics. Cheating children out of wages. Pay a man worthy of his hire. So this also leads into a business not paying the taxes both federal and state as required. ( Ie employees with holdings and social security tax), also workmans comp. insurance. So this is greed plane and simple.

2. The brother wasn't admonished; all of his and his wife's personal counseling information was put out for all to hear. When you admonish you do it with love. When you are led by he flesh and the devil you want to hurt personally, and socially. Also, with a spirit of humility you give a chance for the brother and wife to come back if asked. As for law suits being brought; not a single person reading this would not sue if your Dr. of Psych. stood up in front of all your friends and said you had some STD or mental problem. So don't justify any pastor blasting someone for doing the right thing.

If this churches pastors had done nothing wrong then all is good. But they where using children to profit. Can you justify that? Or is it because it is this group of preachers who hold themselves above a lot of great men Of God because of standards? This whole sad affair will bring this church down. It used to be different but something has changed.
Oh and what about praying for the brother that got kicked out? Or do we not care about him and his wife?

[Servant's <3]

I have no idea who either of you two new guys are... and I don't intend to defend either party.
That being said both families/men should be ashamed of their conduct.

Firstly, the pastor should not have used his position in a capacity that could earn him money for a business at the expense of anyone, especially children. He was completely wrong in doing so. That's not to say teenagers should not do things for the church but not in a labor-capacity. If anything, something small and only in a service to the church directly.

I have no idea all of the events that transpired, but when he did that surely they went to him first to hopefully correct the error. If he refused or was unwilling to hear his brother then he should have gotten 2 or 3 others as laid out in the bible for correction. If he further will not hear get a Presbyter involved. (I don't know the setup in Oregon clearly)

Secondly, the pastor should not have called the man out in front of everyone. This is just further wrongs committed. There are things that it really is not the business of the whole congregation and both parties should try to keep their heads and not go tale bearing to everyone. Things should be handled with as few people as possible unless some people are seeking guidance on how to handle a situation.

Thirdly, the man should not have sued the pastor. I am not saying the pastor did correctly. I am saying inside the faith a man should not go about suing another man inside the same faith especially.... it makes all involved look even worse.... it causes further damage to relationships.... and it hurts the faith itself... more than likely this will only cause those outside the church who desire to do damage to the church to feel justified in doing something politically minded that will damage us all.

I am in no way saying that the pastor should not be censured... but I feel it should be done in a better manner.

Regardless of compensation being made or not FORGIVENESS is necessary from both parties. Especially at this point. We HAVE to forgive one another. We cannot be the example to the world we are supposed to be if we do not from our hearts forgive one another our trespasses. And I'm not talking about wishy washy feel good forgiveness. I mean the forgiveness that is based in God's unfailing, unending love. Forgiveness in the same manner that God has forgiven us. Love and compassion is the ONLY thing that will reconcile this situation. No amount of money in judgement or censure will repair this relationship. Only forgiveness in love will.

Forgiveness means laying down our desire for vengeance or recompense. It means laying aside our own feelings of betrayal. It also means apologizing (in this case publicly). It is not about who is right and who is wrong.... true love and forgiveness is not caring about that especially considering both parties have done some wrong. It is about humbling ourselves and desiring reconciliation with our brother...

Pride and Greed have clearly come into this situation. As well as a wounded heart.

I will pray God's mercy for all involved and that he would move in the hearts of everyone to be compassionate to one another.

[n david]

Your post is written as though you either in this church or know the individuals involved. I don't know the church or parties involved. I've read a few news articles that basically had the same information, which gives very little detail. I also read through the comments to the articles and there are accusations made against both sides from people claiming knowledge of the situation.

I will restate what I said earlier: I believe churches and Pastors should be covered from this kind of lawsuit. Secular courts have no business ruling on internal church discipline. There's actually a legal precedent for this, where a court refused a lawsuit from a former UPC minister whose licensed was revoked and he was removed from the organization. The man turned around and sued the UPC, but the courts sided with the UPC and wrote that it was improper for the court to rule on how a church should handle internal discipline. The First Amendment is quite clear that the government cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion. This includes church procedures and internal discipline.

IMO, because defamation cases are very hard to prove; because this man has to meet a high burden of proof; and because courts are usually hesitant to become involved with internal church discipline, I would guess the suit will be dismissed or the man will lose in court.

[Servant's <3]

I claim no knowledge of the situation. But these sort of things happen in churches and will continually happen in churches as they are occupied by people.

It's possible the pastor did not do what the other gentleman accused him of doing. Unlikely as the pastor was forced to pay the students. I think the defamation suit will probably get thrown out.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Servant's <3

I claim no knowledge of the situation. But these sort of things happen in churches and will continually happen in churches as they are occupied by people.

It's possible the pastor did not do what the other gentleman accused him of doing. Unlikely as the pastor was forced to pay the students. I think the defamation suit will probably get thrown out.

From what I read in the comments, the pay issue and the defamation suit are about two different things.

[Servant's <3]

Per the article the pay issue was already decided against the pastor. Maybe the parishioner is grasping at straws because of the pastor's offence. It is also possible the pastor did do wrong. I am saying who is right and who is wrong is not nearly as important to the spiritual self as the necessity of forgiveness. Lest they both be delivered to the Supreme judge.

[Steve Epley]

In truth I have never heard of folks charging to do work around the church?